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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking.


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Old 07-25-2016, 03:03 PM   #16
TedW
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BillN- You have the smoker of my dreams. Just wanted to say that.

I was impressed by some "data" collected over on AmazingRibs. The temperature of the brine relative to penetration. Warmer = more penetration, which I loved reading as it jibed with what I found as well.

I pretty much brine every bird these days. If a recipe calls for a specific brine / marinade, then I do that. Otherwise it's my go-to pickling spice brine w/ sugar
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedW View Post
BillN- You have the smoker of my dreams. Just wanted to say that.

I was impressed by some "data" collected over on AmazingRibs. The temperature of the brine relative to penetration. Warmer = more penetration, which I loved reading as it jibed with what I found as well.

I pretty much brine every bird these days. If a recipe calls for a specific brine / marinade, then I do that. Otherwise it's my go-to pickling spice brine w/ sugar
Ted - I will have to say with the new smoker the birds I've cooked so far (using natural chicken) have been so moist and tender any moister would have been too moist. My old ECB (long gone) was a different story, birds needed help, brine and bacon barding to ensure moisture. Love the new cooker it has surpassed my expectations, will have to admit I have been lax in providing pron to the Brethren.
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:24 PM   #18
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I almost pulled the trigger (again) this year. A few nice emails with Chris.

Just quick curiosity- what temp / time for those birds in the LSG?
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:37 PM   #19
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I almost pulled the trigger (again) this year. A few nice emails with Chris.

Just quick curiosity- what temp / time for those birds in the LSG?
Only had her going a few weeks now so cooking in warm temps (summer), she likes to cruise at 275 to 285 so (approximate) 1.5 hours for wings, 2 hours for thighs, 2.5 hours spatchcocked... hove not done whole bird yet. I do raise the temps up-to around 315 to 320 (add 2 big sticks) for the last 30 min to produce crispy bite-thru skin. Just have used a simple dry rub SPG and pepper flakes usually apply rub hour or so in advance and leave in fridge till cooker is ready.
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:44 PM   #20
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Very interesting. Thank you Bill. That's a lower temp that I've seen used around here. Makes me want to try this on my Egg. I usually roll at 325, then open it up to crisp.

I've been brining a bird all day on the counter, as I've described earlier. With it, I'm doing a fresh Blueberry / balsamic vinegar / fresh rosemary / maple syrup chicken tonite. Spatchcocked 450+ in the egg until crispy and bronze, then brought inside, cut into pieces, added to the above sauce in then into a shallow cooking dish right under the broiler for maybe 10 more minutes.

It's a take-off of Rao's Chicken in Harlem. Same technique, different acidic sauce
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedW View Post
Very interesting. Thank you Bill. That's a lower temp that I've seen used around here. Makes me want to try this on my Egg. I usually roll at 325, then open it up to crisp.

I've been brining a bird all day on the counter, as I've described earlier. With it, I'm doing a fresh Blueberry / balsamic vinegar / fresh rosemary / maple syrup chicken tonite. Spatchcocked 450+ in the egg until crispy and bronze, then brought inside, cut into pieces, added to the above sauce in then into a shallow cooking dish right under the broiler for maybe 10 more minutes.

It's a take-off of Rao's Chicken in Harlem. Same technique, different acidic sauce
This is just a guess but my LSG moves so much air it seems to cook faster than I thought it would based on the temp gauge. Once it gets to temp there is no smoke coming out the exhaust just invisible heat, have only used a mix of pecan and mesquite. Here is a pic of exhaust running around 285.
IMG_20160707_132856076_HDR.jpg
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Old 07-25-2016, 04:03 PM   #22
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Good lookin' Bill!
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Old 07-25-2016, 04:54 PM   #23
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Some thoughts: Salmonella can duplicate everey 20 minutes. The risk increases with the initial load (how many bugs are there to start with). Brines and refrigeration INHIBIT bacterial growth. Heavy salt concentration can kill, but I don't think 10% can kill all. Remember, we make pickles by fermenting in a brine so some microbes can live in saline. Yes, MOST bacteria are on the surface, but if the surface is cut or breached they can get inside. Pork chops or steaks don't have the little nooks and crannies that chicken has. The little buggers can hide undere the wings, under the skin, in the spaces under the pleura (rib membrane), etc. And part of the chicken processing involves dunking it in a bath that is often contaminated. Cooking to 165 for 7 seconds SHOULD kill all the bad guys, but if you don't cook that high or miss a spot you could be asking for trouble. Yes, salt moves faster when the meat is warm, and in fact it moves faster DURING the cooking process so it will penetrate deep then. Dr. Greg Blonder describes this phenomenon here vhttp://amazingribs.com/recipes/rubs_pastes_marinades_and_brines/zen_of_brines.html Another issue is cross contamination. By multiplying the bacterial count you are increasing the risk for splashes or other things to contaminate an apple or countertop. The taste of the results may be good, but I wonder if they are that much better than if you used safer methods. You should do a controlled side by side blind tasting with someone else doing the processing and cooking and several people tasting.

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Old 07-25-2016, 04:58 PM   #24
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One more thought: I have never been in a fatal car accident, but every year 30,000 people are. Just because I am still alive doesn't mean driving is safe.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:02 PM   #25
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Another point: You say "So aside from a pre-programmed "ick" factor, scientifically the chicken is sterile." Sterile means there is no chance of anything living within. Pasteurized means the microbial load is so low as to be safe. When we cook food we pasteurize, not sterilize. Also, some bugs, like botulinum, can form protective spores when conditions are inhospitable, and come out of the pore state when things are happier.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:12 PM   #26
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Yea..I'll pass.
To each their own.

(i was kinda following until ya quoted meathead..then ya lost me)

I brine in a 5 gallon bucket in the beer fridge. Works well for me.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribmeister View Post
Another point: You say "So aside from a pre-programmed "ick" factor, scientifically the chicken is sterile." Sterile means there is no chance of anything living within. Pasteurized means the microbial load is so low as to be safe. When we cook food we pasteurize, not sterilize. Also, some bugs, like botulinum, can form protective spores when conditions are inhospitable, and come out of the pore state when things are happier.
Thanks for your input.

safe food handling is paramount.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:16 PM   #28
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You should check the microbial mortality at 10% saline over short time. Kills mucho. The fridge? Kills nada. Does anyone here think that this room temp 10% salt brine might actually allow much propagation? 'cause it won't. Anything that survives did so because of great saline affinity, which aren't a concern.

I'm also not swayed at all by the deep fissure theory.

Much more than this is just fearful thinking. The statistical reality of pathogens is quite statistically insignificant for all the reasons already mentioned.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:31 PM   #29
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Sources: chemistry.about.com cdc.gov

" Bacteria require a water-rich environment to survive. Salt dehydrates cells, which can prevent them from reproducing and can even kill them. A concentration of 20 percent salt is usually sufficient to kill bacteria. Staphylococcus is one exception to this rule, however. High enough concentrations of salt still kill it, but it can survive at much higher concentrations than other strains of bacteria. Some other types of bacteria, including cyanobacteria, are also unusually tolerant of salt."

I aint taking chances,cold brine it is !
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:51 PM   #30
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staphylococcus lives on your skin right now. If you're healthy.

These and tens of thousands of other types of microbes live in and on you. About 4 pounds of microbes live in you and on you, on average. There are ten times more microbial cells than human cells associated with you. Microbes are literally in every breath you take.

And one more time... Does anyone believe that anything would grow faster in a salt brine than in your fridge? Anyone?

Remember, we leave un-brined chicken in a bag in the fridge and as long as it doesn't smell, it's cooked. No brine on that bird all week in the fridge. Where's the fear and indignation over this activity?
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