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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
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07-16-2013, 05:10 PM | #106 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: 04-08-04
Location: Marianna, FL
Name/Nickname : Tim
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I have not looked at the new KCBS scoresheet in detail, but it sounds like what FBA has provided for years.
When we competed, we found the data useful, but only in the "macro" sense. As many have said--if we wound up on a low scoring table, we looked at our numbers as such--took it with a grain of salt. If we got great numbers, but so did every one else--we took as a blessing. If our table killed us, but not the others, we looked at working on our cooking. What is interesting is to track the individual judge scores. At one event, we got nailed with a 10-7.5-7.5 from one judge. Totally out of whack with the other 10's and 9.5's. Cost us some serious $$. So, we looked at the other scores from this judge and they were all--100%--10-7.5-7.5 except for one entry that got a perfect 10-10-10 from all judges. Having judged a bit, I know exactly what happened. This Dude or Dudette knew that if they gave 10's on appearance, the Reps could not fault them. When the super entry came in, the other, shall I call them "seasoned judges", clearly showed their "awe" and "Mr 10-7.5-7.5" figured he/she needed to score up. We retired from competing for many reasons, this was just a piece of the puzzle. That info should be available to you KCBS folks now. Good Luck y'all!! TIM
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07-16-2013, 05:14 PM | #107 | ||
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-14-10
Location: Rogers, AR
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The issue would be compounded if the judges knew where their average scores fell. Some how I bet no one will heed this warning. It something has face validity, to hell with construct validity. |
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07-16-2013, 05:25 PM | #108 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 04-22-10
Location: NEW ENGLAND
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i can only imagine that because the statistics are manipulated and not random they are no longer valid. and now that they are no longer valid, they are no longer useful because they were manipulated.
and once you force a smoothing of data, well, we'll probably all get sevens every category, every entry, kinda thing. was i close????
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07-16-2013, 05:52 PM | #109 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-11-10
Location: Northern VA
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Ok, so, why did KCBS institute this new system of delivering the results to the competitors? Was it for us to try and micro manage our cooking? Was it for them to track the judges?
I am only hoping it was for them to track the judges. But then, what are they going to do about it? Really, why provide the competitors this more in depth information? wallace
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wallace(Don) - Life Is Good But BBQ Is Better - BWS - Fat Boy - WSM 22.5 - A bunch on other outdoor cooking stuff. - KCBS CBJ# 58657 - MABA Member "Take luck!" |
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07-16-2013, 05:57 PM | #110 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 02-27-07
Location: Northern VA
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Drive forum & FB traffic?
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Aporkalypse Now Competition BBQ team Thanks to our sponsors: Wusthof Trident USA, Creekstone Farms, Myron Mixon Smokers & The BBQ Guru MABA 2014 Team of the Year Spicewine Tandem - "The Beast", 2 Vulcan V33's & 1 V9 Brinkman modified upright, Weber Kettle(s); Meadow Creek Pr-24, Super Stealth Mode black & Night Vision Red Thermopens ----------------- MABA - (Mid Atlantic BBQ Association) President KCBS Certified Judge - #23289 |
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07-16-2013, 06:13 PM | #111 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 01-01-05
Location: Southern Arizona
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Actually, I am not sure I disagree, but we must be careful not to give inordinate importance to a sample size of ... one. Honestly, I am chewing on the ramifications associated with seating of judges based on historical averages, and I don't think I know what my opinion is on it yet.
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07-16-2013, 06:19 PM | #112 | |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 01-01-05
Location: Southern Arizona
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Notice I said potential, because, the constant in the equation is the judge, the variable is all the things you mentioned and implied: entries, other judges, weather, a cold, etc etc. Many here would argue that the past reults from the constant (the individual judge and his score) is enough data to use to predict what the future outcome is more likely to be. |
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07-16-2013, 06:20 PM | #113 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-11-10
Location: Northern VA
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Quote:
wallace
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wallace(Don) - Life Is Good But BBQ Is Better - BWS - Fat Boy - WSM 22.5 - A bunch on other outdoor cooking stuff. - KCBS CBJ# 58657 - MABA Member "Take luck!" |
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07-16-2013, 06:39 PM | #114 | |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 02-27-07
Location: Northern VA
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Quote:
The constant in the equation is actually the food as most of us vary our recipes very little and have gotten reasonably successful at producing a constant product from week to week. The main variable is the judge.
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Aporkalypse Now Competition BBQ team Thanks to our sponsors: Wusthof Trident USA, Creekstone Farms, Myron Mixon Smokers & The BBQ Guru MABA 2014 Team of the Year Spicewine Tandem - "The Beast", 2 Vulcan V33's & 1 V9 Brinkman modified upright, Weber Kettle(s); Meadow Creek Pr-24, Super Stealth Mode black & Night Vision Red Thermopens ----------------- MABA - (Mid Atlantic BBQ Association) President KCBS Certified Judge - #23289 |
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07-16-2013, 06:42 PM | #115 | |
Found some matches.
Join Date: 12-26-08
Location: San Diego, CA
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Sorting based on historical average could be interesting. It would have to be tested as I don't believe a model can be built to test this because of the human factor but someone may prove me wrong. I don't know if I would rather see this or have some re-training for the judges that are consistently off target on their judging. Since I don't have access to historical data I guess it doesn't matter anyway. lol Thanks Vince. |
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07-16-2013, 07:32 PM | #116 |
On the road to being a farker
Join Date: 02-06-08
Location: T'ville, KY
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Cooks as judges
While I believe all cook teams should have members that judge at least on occasion, I have found over the years as a judge that they are the toughest/lowest scorers. Reps should account for who are mostly cook team members at contests and distribute them as they would VIPs or newbies.
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07-16-2013, 07:42 PM | #117 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 11-13-08
Location: Taylorsville, KY
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I'm wondering if there is renumbering of tables and judge seats on the printouts for anonymity, like there is with team entry boxes, so we keep the true double-blind. At comps that have tents for judging, it wouldn't be too hard for someone to at least figure out the table numbers. I'd hate to lose one of my cook friends because they figured out my table and seat number and my score didn't agree with what they thought it should be.
And I wonder how KCBS is going to re-educate outliers. So far, continuing education consists of one on-line test which I easily ace. Tracking won't do much good if they don't have a plan for what's next.
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07-16-2013, 07:56 PM | #118 |
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Join Date: 04-22-10
Location: NEW ENGLAND
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the problem i'm having with sorting through historical data is we would essentially be removing that "i didn't like it" spike in scoring.
clearly the most skilled teams have overcome that with their cooking and enjoy success, and those that haven't aspire to it, learn more, cook better, and hopefully enjoy the journey. i think it may do a real disservice to the competitors and the sport to start sorting judges.
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07-16-2013, 08:09 PM | #119 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-11-10
Location: Northern VA
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[QUOTE=boogiesnap;2554257] clearly the most skilled teams have overcome that with their cooking and enjoy success, and those that haven't aspire to it, learn more, cook better, and hopefully enjoy the journey.[/ QUOTE]
+1. That goes for me. wallace
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wallace(Don) - Life Is Good But BBQ Is Better - BWS - Fat Boy - WSM 22.5 - A bunch on other outdoor cooking stuff. - KCBS CBJ# 58657 - MABA Member "Take luck!" |
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07-16-2013, 08:44 PM | #120 |
On the road to being a farker
Join Date: 12-28-06
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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One variable that I don't think has been brought up is the celebrity judges.
To me, that is a problem, you can re-educate existing judges all you want, how do you factor in a high percentage of judges who are judging their first contest whith no historical data on how they might score entries? |
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