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Old 03-10-2019, 05:03 PM   #1
DesertRaider
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Default Curing w/ Sodium Nitrate

Considering the time of year, I thought this would be a timely question. I'm looking to cure brisket for Corned Beef and Pastrami. Coming across lots of warnings about Sodium Nitrate, the conversion to Sodium Nitrite, and the eventual conversion to nitrosamines, makes one wonder just how we survived to this point.

So, my question is, what is the general consensus? Is there one? What are the Bretheren doing? Is celery powder from celery juice the answer?

Sorry for the long preamble, just looking to frame the question properly.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:06 PM   #2
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Nitrite (cure 1) is vastly different measurements than Nitrate (cure 2 which includes salt).

Make sure you use the correct cure for your recipe.

IamMadMan should be around soon to explain the rest.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:11 PM   #3
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https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/s...53&postcount=3
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:23 PM   #4
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Thanks for both posts. That was going to be my next question

I know there's not a lot of Sodium Nitrate used in the cure, and, it's been an excercise in futility to try to find it around where I live (just ordered from internet).
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:31 PM   #5
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Celery powder is full of sodium nitrite or is it nitrate? One of those. It's just an excuse to be able to not put sodium nitrite on the ingredient label. I get my cure #1 at sausagemaker.com. If you haven't started your cure yet, you'll be cutting it close.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:50 PM   #6
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I would guess that most recipes call for cure#1 which contains sodium nitrite. Cure #2 which contains sodium nitrate (in addition to sodium nitrite) is more used in products that are to be shelf stable like summer sausages, certain hams, or fermented products, etc. I'm vastly oversimplifying it. Just do your homework.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:54 PM   #7
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The reason given for using celery powder is that the same chemical reaction (the nitrosamines) doesn't happen with natural sodium nitrate. Now, I haven't found the research to back it up, but that's just what I've read. Which is what prompted my post, since there are people with greater minds than mine here that have dealt with all these questions.

Because I've gotten such a late start, I'm not going to be able to get even 7 days curing if I want to have it ready for St. Patricks Day, so, I think it's going to be for just after the 17th But, it will set me up to do a comparison between store bought vs home made.
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:36 PM   #8
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Here’s another recipe

https://amazingribs.com/tested-recip...ed-beef-recipe
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:40 PM   #9
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:52 PM   #10
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IamMadMan is the expert in this field, but just letting you know that there have been furious discussions regarding Celery in the past. The general consensus is that it doesn't work well enough to be considered safe but there are a few people out there in the wild (still alive) that swear by it.

Personally, I use cures 1 and 2 regularly. Be sure to read up on it as much as you can and measure very carefully.

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Old 03-10-2019, 06:56 PM   #11
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:03 PM   #12
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Celery powder or juice is just the same "cure" as using commercial sausage cure #1. There is more nitrates and nitrites in vegetables than in cured meats. Eat a nice salad and you will ingest more than you ever will in hot dogs and other "dangerous cured meats". It does not matter if you have a plant based material (cure from celery juice) or a distilled crystal of the same substance, it's all the same. The so called "all natural" products that use celery juice as the cure are just scamming the public for a higher price on what is basically the same chemical used as a curing agent. You don't hear anyone preaching the dangers of salad and greens do you? The "dangers" of processed meats are basically someone with an agenda when you really look at it.

Cure #1 is a precise measurement of the cure in a salt base carrier, with pink coloring added for safety (as to not to confuse it with regular salt). Cure #1 will always be 6.25% sodium nitrite cure. Celery powder or celery juice is going to be what percentage? It's not standardized like cure #1 is. And they don't want to advertise that it is actually cure #1 in another form so I doubt you will ever see a published percentage ratio on a container of celery cure. I know what's in my commercial cure #1 and what the ratio is. Plus it is a food grade product made in a lab for a specific purpose. So it's easy to make a safe product. Not so much with an unlabeled bag of celery powder made who knows how. Yes, there are a couple of commercial sausage making companies who do carry celery powder and they do provide proper usage directions. If you want to use celery powder, I would buy it from a reputable sausage making supplier. But it's still nitrites being used as a cure (at a higher price per equal usage). And there are also questionable supplies of "natural" celery cures out there.

It's sort of like arguing over drinking water out of a Dasani bottle from the store or out of the stream in your backyard. They are both water, but which is the known quantity, purity and consistency?

Note: The above article posted live as I was making my post, but our points are similar.


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Last edited by dward51; 03-10-2019 at 07:17 PM..
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:30 PM   #13
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http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Corned_Beef.pdf



Wendliny Domowe - Meats and Sausage (Based on some of Marianski teachings/recipes):
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-making

Len Paoli's Recipe site
http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage%20recipes.htm
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRaider View Post
The reason given for using celery powder is that the same chemical reaction (the nitrosamines) doesn't happen with natural sodium nitrate. Now, I haven't found the research to back it up, but that's just what I've read. Which is what prompted my post, since there are people with greater minds than mine here that have dealt with all these questions.

Because I've gotten such a late start, I'm not going to be able to get even 7 days curing if I want to have it ready for St. Patricks Day, so, I think it's going to be for just after the 17th But, it will set me up to do a comparison between store bought vs home made.
You have time, it's not a hard rule on brining unless you have a really thick piece of meat and then it won't reach the middle. Use a probe and poke holes all over to let the brine in.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:46 PM   #15
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How did I not know that Len had a corned beef recipe?!?!? I have never had a bad result from using any one of Len's recipes. Just sayin'...
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