Technique for discussion

11-13-2003, 10:50 PM

In for a late one tonite. I have a whole turkey and a 13 pound brisket in the smoker. Mesquite is the wood of the day, and the rub is a new twist on an old standby.
I didn't have time to brine either one so I rubbed em both. I like Wild willies #onederful from smoke and spice, but I was out of ceyenne pepper for the recipe so I substituted powdered jalapeno....BAM!!! Talk about a kick! I will "salt" the meat occaisionally during smoking tonite...jalapeno rub over mesquite smoke...could it get any more Texas flavored?

11-14-2003, 07:14 AM

I have a technique that I am still working on that seems to do great with brisket...I wonder if anyone else does the same or a variant. I learned it from Danny Gaulden's BBQ. Instead of worrying about trimming the fat cap when the meat goes into the smoker, I just throw it in. Then, after the brisket is done, I pull it with about an hour to go and cut ALLLLL the fat off, re-rub it and put it back in the smoker. The tricky part here is to leave it in long enough to develop a flavorful bark but not so long as to dry out. This has worked great for me on those Sam's cryovace briskets. Too much fat and they taste like grease, too little and they are tough and dry when done. The way I am doing it takes less effort than trying to trim the brisket just right, and seems to result in a perfect level of moisture and has a more flavorful bark and more smokering into the meat because the fat got removed. Comments?

tommykendall · 11-14-2003, 07:38 AM

While I like the concept, I heard that meat pretty much stops taking in smoke in the 145-155 range. That's why some folks simply turn to alternative heat sources (including an oven for Christ's sake) once the meat hits 160 or so. How much bark and smoke ring are you getting in that last hour following removal of the fat? I've heard of a couple other ways to achieve similar results for what you're describing (haven't ried either one):

1. Toss the turd onto a hot grill after the cooking process.
2. Toss the raw turd onto a hot grill before the cooking process, searing it like a london broil until you get a good bark all the way around. I guess it's supposed to help retain the meat juices while smoking.

11-14-2003, 08:28 AM

:P I can truly say that the bark and the smoke penetration are both great. I had also heard that once the temp of the meat gets past 120F no furthersmoke penetration occurs. I can't say that isn't true, but i CAN say the the 190F meat going back into the smoker develops a brand new bark and EXCELLENT smoke penetration. The trick isto keep an eye on it so that the brisket doesn't become 100 percent mr brown. I just keep it in long enough for the brisket not to be greasy and to develop a new (light) bark...about an hour at 225 deg, although before I pontificate, I will say that I need to do more briskets this way to refine my technique. Regardless, the one that I finished smoking this morning was perfect!

tommykendall · 11-14-2003, 08:56 AM

Send a sammich quick!

threesticks · 11-14-2003, 10:13 AM

From Kit Anderson at the FAQ of the Internet BBQ List (Version 2.0/Section 12-Science and Barbecue)
"The smoke ring reaction stops when the meat gets to about 120F. The smoke ring is only one of the reactions taking place in the meat and has its own associated flavor but smoke penetration is temperature dependent."

http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/12.html

in2que · 11-14-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckkphoto

Then, after the brisket is done, I pull it with about an hour to go and cut ALLLLL the fat off, re-rub it and put it back in the smoker. Comments?

I tend to agree with you on this one. If you scrape all the fat off you have exposed parts of the brisket that are "mildly" flavored with the smoke and spice. I think you give it extra smoke/spice flavor doing it that way.

I do a different technique now. I get those trimmed flats at Sams and smoke to 190. Foil it and put it in the ice chest. They have gotten no complaints from guests. Takes half the time. I know they cost more, but worth it to me. I can fit more meat into the Bandera's belly too.

tommykendall · 11-14-2003, 10:40 AM

Gheez. Chris K and I do a lot of brisket. I tend to believe him, contrary to what I've read. My thoughts on this - Scraping off the remaining fat will still leave some fat (more or less depending on how clean you got it) on previously unexposed meat. That newly unexposed meat will have quite a bit of moisture and fat content from the cap you just removed. Look at the slicing photos in the brisket photo sequence in the photo section. That fat moisture in the meat and any remaining white fat, has to be able to take in more smoke and form a bark. I generally agree with Kit Anderson's post, but once you alter the state of the brisket (removing a layer of Mr. Brown in this case), it may change the playing field.

11-14-2003, 01:35 PM

It probably IS true that the "bacon on a stick" smoke ring happens before the meat hits 120F. (I always put cold meat in a cold smoker to take maximum advantage of this and my smoke rings are usually 3/8 to 1/2 inch). To say that meat can't absorb smoke above 120F is most unlikely to be true. Chemicals slide down their concentration gradients, and tend to do that more quickly at higher temperatures. Besides the physical evidence (the smoke ring on the brisket) tends to bear it out. This techniqe for me is just a way to get more smoke and spice and less grease in a fully cooked brisket. I find I have quite good results this way. Today's brisket had to be fridged to be sliced(it was just slightly past pull apart tender), but was not fatty, OR mushy, and it had a smoke ring all the way around instead of just on the side where it was fatless going into the smoker. I can't claim credit for the idea...got it from Danny Gaulden's DQ-cue.

tommykendall · 11-14-2003, 06:24 PM

Quote:

I can't claim credit for the idea...got it from Danny Gaulden's DQ-cue.

Hey CK - does Danny G have an active web site now? I tried e-mailing him about a week ago from the practically defunct web site and didn't receive a response.

Mike(Mi) · 11-14-2003, 11:05 PM

Well, I've only got one thing to say about this. Brisket is always an adventure. Anyone who says it isn't is either not very discerning about their brisket, is use to eating what they get, or will eat anything put in front of them. Let's face it, a GREAT brisket, on any given day, is a less than 50/50 prospect for most of us. You can have all the great DP marinade and great basic rubs you want. Brisket is always an adventure. There's no short-cuts to Brisket. C'mon guys, this is one of the basic premises of my world view.

Having said that, yes, I have done that and now that I have, I really think, for me, it's just extra work. I think getting a good pretrimming of fat to just the right amount and correct preparation formula is the part of the adventure before you apply the smoke mod. On the other hand, if a guy wants to fuss with his brisket, more power to him, and who could even think of interfering in such a noble preoccupation?

Danny G's site hasn't been all there for a long time. I keep checking too. I heard he originally intended to improve it and then had to redo it because he had a dispute with Dairy Queen corporate because they objected to the non-standard (Q) menu being associated with DQ. Whoever made that decision was a dumbass. I don't know what the current sitiuation might be.

He tends to like higher temps than I would have expected. I learned alot of good stuff from reading his advice and recipes on his site. You just have to wittle down the "I'm cooking 25-30 lbs in a Bandera" from his "I'm cooking 250-300 lbs in an awesome indoor pit". Fortunately, at least last time I looked, some of his best stuff was still on the BBQ FAQ.

"Brisket is always an adventure."
----The Book of Mike, Chap.2 vs.5

bamasmoker · 11-15-2003, 09:07 AM

Is tech-ni-que anything like bar-bi-que?

11-15-2003, 09:26 AM

[quote="tommykendall"]

Quote:

Hey CK - does Danny G have an active web site now? I tried e-mailing him about a week ago from the practically defunct web site and didn't receive a response.

Dairy Queen made him take down the website becuase of revealing "trade secrets" I honestly don't even know if he is still alive and kicking...I have done several searches online to see if he had posted anything, but never had any success and no response to an e-mail. His old site was awesome. I wish that I had copied the entire thing to disk.
I took the whole family on a detour through Carlsbad NM just to visit his joint. It was really really good BBQ, and his first assistant gave me a tour of the pit and show and told me a bit about how they do it.

egkor · 11-15-2003, 09:37 AM

Here's a link to Danny's web site:

http://www.dannysbbq.com/

-egkor (Gary K)

11-15-2003, 09:39 AM

[quote="Mike(Mi)"]Well, I've only got one thing to say about this. Brisket is always an adventure. Anyone who says it isn't is either not very discerning about their brisket, is use to eating what they get, or will eat anything put in front of them. Let's face it, a GREAT brisket, on any given day, is a less than 50/50 prospect for most of us. You can have all the great DP marinade and great basic rubs you want. Brisket is always an adventure. There's no short-cuts to Brisket. C'mon guys, this is one of the basic premises of my world view.

If it weren't for the challenge of making really good Q, i don't think I would enjoy BBQ. I recently told someone that one of the things I like about this site (as opposed to the ORIGINAL) is posting honestly I would rather make and report colossal mistakes than just bragging about sweet smoke. Give me the jalapenos and lets try something NEW!!! That's what quing is about for me. And if Uncle Farker want's to put his two cents in on how it should be done, we will just move Thanksgiving to his house THIS year and he can show ALL of us. (oops a rant , well I feel better now)
I get bored making the same things in the same way. As soon as I feel I have a "technique" down, I will just do something to spice up the experience. I am not quite to the level of a "margarita marinade" yet, but give me time... :)

11-13-2003, 10:50 PM	#1
ckkphoto Guest	Technique for discussion In for a late one tonite. I have a whole turkey and a 13 pound brisket in the smoker. Mesquite is the wood of the day, and the rub is a new twist on an old standby. I didn't have time to brine either one so I rubbed em both. I like Wild willies #onederful from smoke and spice, but I was out of ceyenne pepper for the recipe so I substituted powdered jalapeno....BAM!!! Talk about a kick! I will "salt" the meat occaisionally during smoking tonite...jalapeno rub over mesquite smoke...could it get any more Texas flavored?

11-14-2003, 07:38 AM	#3
tommykendall Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 08-13-03 Location: Long Beach, CA	While I like the concept, I heard that meat pretty much stops taking in smoke in the 145-155 range. That's why some folks simply turn to alternative heat sources (including an oven for Christ's sake) once the meat hits 160 or so. How much bark and smoke ring are you getting in that last hour following removal of the fat? I've heard of a couple other ways to achieve similar results for what you're describing (haven't ried either one): 1. Toss the turd onto a hot grill after the cooking process. 2. Toss the raw turd onto a hot grill before the cooking process, searing it like a london broil until you get a good bark all the way around. I guess it's supposed to help retain the meat juices while smoking. __________________ tk PitBitch

11-14-2003, 08:56 AM	#5
tommykendall Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 08-13-03 Location: Long Beach, CA	Send a sammich quick! __________________ tk PitBitch

11-14-2003, 10:13 AM	#6
threesticks Knows what a fatty is. Join Date: 10-25-03 Location: Keller, Texas	From Kit Anderson at the FAQ of the Internet BBQ List (Version 2.0/Section 12-Science and Barbecue) "The smoke ring reaction stops when the meat gets to about 120F. The smoke ring is only one of the reactions taking place in the meat and has its own associated flavor but smoke penetration is temperature dependent." http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/12.html __________________ "Stay Hard and Keep Jammin'!!!!!!!!" Bandera Brethren Member #138

11-14-2003, 10:40 AM	#8
tommykendall Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 08-13-03 Location: Long Beach, CA	Gheez. Chris K and I do a lot of brisket. I tend to believe him, contrary to what I've read. My thoughts on this - Scraping off the remaining fat will still leave some fat (more or less depending on how clean you got it) on previously unexposed meat. That newly unexposed meat will have quite a bit of moisture and fat content from the cap you just removed. Look at the slicing photos in the brisket photo sequence in the photo section. That fat moisture in the meat and any remaining white fat, has to be able to take in more smoke and form a bark. I generally agree with Kit Anderson's post, but once you alter the state of the brisket (removing a layer of Mr. Brown in this case), it may change the playing field. __________________ tk PitBitch

11-14-2003, 07:14 AM	#2
ckkphoto Guest	I have a technique that I am still working on that seems to do great with brisket...I wonder if anyone else does the same or a variant. I learned it from Danny Gaulden's BBQ. Instead of worrying about trimming the fat cap when the meat goes into the smoker, I just throw it in. Then, after the brisket is done, I pull it with about an hour to go and cut ALLLLL the fat off, re-rub it and put it back in the smoker. The tricky part here is to leave it in long enough to develop a flavorful bark but not so long as to dry out. This has worked great for me on those Sam's cryovace briskets. Too much fat and they taste like grease, too little and they are tough and dry when done. The way I am doing it takes less effort than trying to trim the brisket just right, and seems to result in a perfect level of moisture and has a more flavorful bark and more smokering into the meat because the fat got removed. Comments?

11-14-2003, 08:28 AM	#4
ckkphoto Guest	:P I can truly say that the bark and the smoke penetration are both great. I had also heard that once the temp of the meat gets past 120F no furthersmoke penetration occurs. I can't say that isn't true, but i CAN say the the 190F meat going back into the smoker develops a brand new bark and EXCELLENT smoke penetration. The trick isto keep an eye on it so that the brisket doesn't become 100 percent mr brown. I just keep it in long enough for the brisket not to be greasy and to develop a new (light) bark...about an hour at 225 deg, although before I pontificate, I will say that I need to do more briskets this way to refine my technique. Regardless, the one that I finished smoking this morning was perfect!

11-14-2003, 01:35 PM	#9
ckkphoto Guest	It probably IS true that the "bacon on a stick" smoke ring happens before the meat hits 120F. (I always put cold meat in a cold smoker to take maximum advantage of this and my smoke rings are usually 3/8 to 1/2 inch). To say that meat can't absorb smoke above 120F is most unlikely to be true. Chemicals slide down their concentration gradients, and tend to do that more quickly at higher temperatures. Besides the physical evidence (the smoke ring on the brisket) tends to bear it out. This techniqe for me is just a way to get more smoke and spice and less grease in a fully cooked brisket. I find I have quite good results this way. Today's brisket had to be fridged to be sliced(it was just slightly past pull apart tender), but was not fatty, OR mushy, and it had a smoke ring all the way around instead of just on the side where it was fatless going into the smoker. I can't claim credit for the idea...got it from Danny Gaulden's DQ-cue.

11-14-2003, 11:05 PM	#11
Mike(Mi) On the road to being a farker Join Date: 09-02-03 Location: Michigan / Arkansas	Well, I've only got one thing to say about this. Brisket is always an adventure. Anyone who says it isn't is either not very discerning about their brisket, is use to eating what they get, or will eat anything put in front of them. Let's face it, a GREAT brisket, on any given day, is a less than 50/50 prospect for most of us. You can have all the great DP marinade and great basic rubs you want. Brisket is always an adventure. There's no short-cuts to Brisket. C'mon guys, this is one of the basic premises of my world view. Having said that, yes, I have done that and now that I have, I really think, for me, it's just extra work. I think getting a good pretrimming of fat to just the right amount and correct preparation formula is the part of the adventure before you apply the smoke mod. On the other hand, if a guy wants to fuss with his brisket, more power to him, and who could even think of interfering in such a noble preoccupation? Danny G's site hasn't been all there for a long time. I keep checking too. I heard he originally intended to improve it and then had to redo it because he had a dispute with Dairy Queen corporate because they objected to the non-standard (Q) menu being associated with DQ. Whoever made that decision was a dumbass. I don't know what the current sitiuation might be. He tends to like higher temps than I would have expected. I learned alot of good stuff from reading his advice and recipes on his site. You just have to wittle down the "I'm cooking 25-30 lbs in a Bandera" from his "I'm cooking 250-300 lbs in an awesome indoor pit". Fortunately, at least last time I looked, some of his best stuff was still on the BBQ FAQ. "Brisket is always an adventure." ----The Book of Mike, Chap.2 vs.5 __________________ It was like this when I got here. Well, ...mostly.

11-15-2003, 09:07 AM	#12
bamasmoker Knows what a fatty is. Join Date: 10-28-03 Location: Birmingham AL	Is tech-ni-que anything like bar-bi-que? __________________ Bamasmoker Butt...It's not just for breakfast anymore!

11-15-2003, 09:37 AM	#14
egkor Knows what a fatty is. Join Date: 10-02-03 Location: Tx	Here's a link to Danny's web site: http://www.dannysbbq.com/ -egkor (Gary K)

11-15-2003, 09:39 AM	#15
ckkphoto Guest	Brisket, its not just for breakfast anymore! [quote="Mike(Mi)"]Well, I've only got one thing to say about this. Brisket is always an adventure. Anyone who says it isn't is either not very discerning about their brisket, is use to eating what they get, or will eat anything put in front of them. Let's face it, a GREAT brisket, on any given day, is a less than 50/50 prospect for most of us. You can have all the great DP marinade and great basic rubs you want. Brisket is always an adventure. There's no short-cuts to Brisket. C'mon guys, this is one of the basic premises of my world view. If it weren't for the challenge of making really good Q, i don't think I would enjoy BBQ. I recently told someone that one of the things I like about this site (as opposed to the ORIGINAL) is posting honestly I would rather make and report colossal mistakes than just bragging about sweet smoke. Give me the jalapenos and lets try something NEW!!! That's what quing is about for me. And if Uncle Farker want's to put his two cents in on how it should be done, we will just move Thanksgiving to his house THIS year and he can show ALL of us. (oops a rant , well I feel better now) I get bored making the same things in the same way. As soon as I feel I have a "technique" down, I will just do something to spice up the experience. I am not quite to the level of a "margarita marinade" yet, but give me time... :)

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