Pork collar snake river

Its actually a more accurate name for the cut we all know as boston butt. And that may very well be all it is, another name for the same cut. I've ordered berkshire butts before (not from SRF) that were butchered differently and looked a lot like the picture a few posts up. Doesnt matter what they call it, if it is the upper part of the front shoulder and over 5lbs should be legal.

dmprantz said:

That's a good plan on using the MAPP torch and informing your neighbors Scottie. Really above board! I know it's a dead horse, and I am not now, nor have I ever really tried to get FECs deemed illegal. My whole point in bringing it up is that people were quoting the rules to declare that something which is labled "collar" illegal because it is not labled one of the three cuts listed in the rules. Quoting the rules alone does not end the discussion, because there can always be exceptions which do not follow them, as pointed out here.

dmp

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I think that it's reasonable to expect someone that has a done a contest or two, to be able to determine what cut of meat they are purchasing and being sure that it is either legal or not regardless of what the label says.

I rely on the rules, because that is what everyone is allegedly supposed to be following.

I understand your intent. I also understand that there are clearly people that have gone out of their way to gain some advantage, and are not within the rules as they are currently written.

Just thinking out loud on the FEC dead horse: "Propane or electric" in the third sentence probably refers to the previous sentence which says "Gas and electric heat sources." I would probably think it's a lot less of a variance if they changed the wording of the third sentence to also read "Gas and electric heat sources." Some people hate change and see no reason to alter the rules, but in my detail oriented mind, that makes it a bit clearer that a "starter" which does not produce noticable "heat" is okay. I can also see how and why the board rules the way it does and FECs are allowed...okay, enough kicking. It really wasn't the point to begin with.

dmp

Jorge said:

I think that it's reasonable to expect someone that has a done a contest or two, to be able to determine what cut of meat they are purchasing and being sure that it is either legal or not regardless of what the label says.

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Yo Jorge, Before I posted the above picture with the two pork collars, I would have agreed with your statement. Those two pieces of meat look just like boneless butts to me and I have butchered many a hog and cooked many a contest. I am sure that even an experienced contest meat inspector would look at those two pieces of meat and passed them for inspection.

With all these big money contest that are up and coming, maybe it is time for the KCBS to start tagging meats as they do at the HLSR.

Porters,

Juggy

I do not compete and have no plans to either, but, I was intrigued that somehow collars would be an advantage in cooking for a competition. Got me to thinking it might be a better cut to cook at home. I started looking into it and from what I can gather, it is just the upper portion of the whole shoulder cut and is the part of the shoulder from the blade bone upwards to the top of the spine. It appears to be both part of the whole shoulder and at least, in part, a portion of the whole Boston Butt cut. Seems that in terms of description it absolutely meets the requirements for competition, it also seems to offer no real advantage for cooking at home from a normal butt.

I've cooked them a few times, but never turned them in at a competition, and they were all 5lbs or over.



Berkshire Kurobuta Collar Trim Butts as they were labeled on the cases. Not from SRF, but somewhere out of Iowa, my butcher calls them CT Butts and they sell a lot of them to restaurants in the Seattle area.

Here is a pic of them on the Right WSM in relation to the 8lb bone in Farmland butts on the Left.





Bill at Select Gourmet Foods trims and ties them into roasts and they get sliced like a Pork Loin.




Here we have some that got trimmed and stuffed in a pigs gut.





And more that got ground into Sausage









They shrink up but keep their shape, I was under the impression they were like the money muscle cut off the Butt, at least that is what I was led to believe . It is great tasting pork, but I think they were @ $3.99 lb and it just didn't WOW us enough to continue using.

When we do our monthly BBQ Roadshow, I'll try to get some pics of the Butts on the scale, the Packers name, and labels for show.

If you go to the Snake River Farms site they are listed in the BBQ Package, I'm sure they won't be happy to learn they won't be flying out the door anytime soon. Maybe not!
http://store.snakeriverfarms.com/competitive-bbq-collection/

To completely clear up what a pork butt is or a company cutting their version of a pork butt need to be standardized like the meat industry has done. I believe KCBS needs to implement the items legal for cooking the same as the American Meat Producers have.Example:

Institutional Meat Purchase Specifications

IMPS are a series of meat product specifications maintained by AMS. They are developed as voluntary consensus specifications. Large volume purchasers such as Federal, State and Local Government agencies, schools, restaurants, hotels, and other food service users reference the IMPS for procuring meat products.


The IMPS are composed of the following series:

General Requirements - PDF file
Quality Assurance Provisions - PDF file
100 Fresh Beef - PDF file updated March 19, 2010
200 Fresh Lamb and Mutton - PDF file
300 Fresh Veal and Calf - PDF file
400 Fresh Pork - PDF file updated November 4, 2009
500 Cured, Cured and Smoked, Cooked Pork Products - PDF file
600 Cured, Dried and Smoked Beef Products - PDF file
700 Variety Meats and Edible By-Products - PDF file
800 Sausage Products - PDF file
11 Fresh Goat - PDF file


And under each species of animals like 400 pork the butt is number for Bone in is 406, boneless is 406a, and shoulder blade steak is 1406.

Butcher BBQ said:

And under each species of animals like 400 pork the butt is number for Bone in is 406, boneless is 406a, and shoulder blade steak is 1406.

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Hey David,
Is there a number for anything called collar?

The only reference I see to a collar has to do with the skin on either the shoulder (404) or the ham (401).

drbbq said:

Hey David,
Is there a number for anything called collar?

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That's the issue with IMPS numbers - IMPS only designates primal cuts. A "collar" seems to a sub cut of an IMPS 406 butt.

Juggy D Beerman said:

Yo Jorge, Before I posted the above picture with the two pork collars, I would have agreed with your statement. Those two pieces of meat look just like boneless butts to me and I have butchered many a hog and cooked many a contest. I am sure that even an experienced contest meat inspector would look at those two pieces of meat and passed them for inspection.

With all these big money contest that are up and coming, maybe it is time for the KCBS to start tagging meats as they do at the HLSR.

Porters,

Juggy

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Fair points. Can't wait to see the process when a cook has 24 thighs they plan to cook:laugh:

Slamdunkpro said:

That's the issue with IMPS numbers - IMPS only designates primal cuts.

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IMPS goes down to the sub-primal level. For instance in beef, brisket is a primal while point and flat are subprimals. My understanding with swine, having far fewer primals, the entire shoulder is a primal, with butt and picnic being sub-primals.

drbbq said:

Hey David,
Is there a number for anything called collar?

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No there is not.

Slamdunkpro said:

That's the issue with IMPS numbers - IMPS only designates primal cuts. A "collar" seems to a sub cut of an IMPS 406 butt.

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No and Yes. all sub primal cuts are recognized in these numbers and its not recognized. Just like the rules say butt, shoulder, and picnic. Not sub primal called pork steak, country style ribs, cushion meat, etc.

Here is the way a butt is described to be cut and still allowed to be called a butt. Any other way its not a butt:
Shoulder
The shoulder is separated from the side by a straight cut that is approximately perpendicular to the length of the side. The cut shall be made posterior to (so as not to expose) the elbow, but not more than 1.0 inch (2.5 cm) from the tip of the elbow. The outer tip of the subscapularis muscle shall not extend past the dorsal edge of the base of the medial ridge of the blade bone. The foot shall be excluded at or slightly above the upper knee joint by a straight cut approximately perpendicular to the shank bones. The jowl shall be excluded by a straight cut approximately parallel with the loin side which is anterior to, but not more than 1.0 inch (2.5 cm) from the innermost curvature of the ear dip. The neck bones, ribs, breast bones, associated cartilage and breast flap (through the major crease) shall also be excluded. The fat and skin shall be beveled to meet the lean on the dorsal edge. The exterior fat thickness at the dorsal skin edge, measured at the center of the cut, shall not exceed that indicated in the schedule shown.

Here is a complete list of numbers and brief description:

400 Carcass
400A Whole Roasting Pig
401 Leg (Fresh Ham)
401A Leg (Fresh Ham), Short Shank
401C Leg (Fresh Ham), Semi Boneless
402 Leg (Fresh Ham), Skinned
402A Leg (Fresh Ham), Skinned, Short Shank
402B Leg (Fresh Ham), Boneless
402C Leg (Fresh Ham), Boneless, Short Shank, Trimmed
402D Leg (Fresh Ham), Outside
402E Leg (Fresh Ham), Outside, Trimmed, Shank Remo
402F Leg (Fresh Ham), Inside 3-down
402G Leg (Fresh Ham), TBS, 3-Way, Boneless
403 Shoulder
403B Shoulder, Outside
403C Shoulder, Inside -
404 Shoulder, Skinned
405 Shoulder, Picnic
405A Shoulder, Picnic, Boneless
405B Shoulder, Picnic, Cushion, Boneless Amount as Specified
406 Shoulder, Boston Butt, Bone In -
406A Shoulder, Boston Butt, Boneless
406B Shoulder, Boston Butt, Boneless, Special
407 Shoulder Butt, Cellar Trimmed, Boneless
408 Belly
409 Belly, Skinless
409A Belly, Single Ribbed, Skinless
409B Belly, Center-Cut, Skinless
410 Loin, Bone In
411 Loin, Bone In, Bladeless
412 Loin, Bone In, Center-Cut 8 Ribs
412A Loin, Bone In, Center-Cut, 8 Ribs, Chine Bone Off
412B Loin, Boneless, Center-Cut, 8 Ribs
412C Loin, Bone In, Center-Cut, 11 Ribs
412D Loin, Bone In, Center-Cut, 11 Ribs, Chine Bone Off
412E Loin, Boneless, Center-Cut, 11 Ribs
413 Loin, Boneless
413A Loin, Boneless, Roast
413B Loin, Boneless, Special
414 Loin, Canadian Back
415 Tenderloin
415A Tenderloin, Side Muscle Off
416 Spareribs
416A Spareribs, St. Louis Style
416B Spareribs, Brisket Bones
416C Spareribs, Breast Off
416D Breast Bones under-1
417 Shoulder Hocks -
417A Leg (Fresh Ham) Hocks
418 Trimmings
420 Pig's Feet, Front
421 Neck Bones

423 Loin, Country-Style Ribs
422 Loin, Back Ribs
435B Pork for Kabobs
496 Ground Pork

You know, where Jorge may be going, and I'll take it regardless, I think the rules as they sit are pretty sound. They describe one of three cuts of meat which are given industry standard names which qualify for the prok category, and if you wanna get technical, they all really come from the same primal. Once you have the cut, you can trim away as much as you want, and still use it as long as it stays at or over 5 lb pre-cooked weight. If whatever you have is not given the same name, but falls within a subset of the whole shoulder, it should be legal. If my butcher sold Boston butts as "Fred," they'd still meet the IMPS definition of a bitt and be legal, right? Since collar isn't defined as something else, it could very well be the same thing as a Boston butt. As long as it does not include meat outside of the shoulder primal, I think it's fine...if you can get them to ship you one over 5 lb.

dmp

Out of curiosity, which brisket cut is the one commonly referred to as "packers"? Is it 118, 119 or 120? My guess is 119, but I'm not sure.

Erik

I believe it's 120. 119 would have fat on both sides.

White Dog BBQ said:

Out of curiosity, which brisket cut is the one commonly referred to as "packers"? Is it 118, 119 or 120? My guess is 119, but I'm not sure.

Erik

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120 is a "packer" both the flat and the point with the deckle removed
118 is a packer with the deckle left on
120a is just the flat
120b is only the point

I am sure I have misunderstood, but I thought the deckle and the point are the same thing....