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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
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01-24-2005, 07:54 AM | #1 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: 04-08-04
Location: Marianna, FL
Name/Nickname : Tim
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Dry Heat vs Wet Heat for Competetion level bark.
Anyone have an opinion on the bark quality produced by dry heat compared to moist heat?
We think that dry heat helps with Chickie skin, seems to get crispy and not so tough and mushy. DF and I notice that some of the top level teams use water in the bottom of their biggo Lang and Klose cookers, others cook "dry". I know the fluid is there primarily for heat stability and the meat itself does not appear to absorb the moisture or flavor. But, I would think the moisture would have an effect (good or bad?) on the rub and affect the quality of the bark. Ideas or experience here????? Anyone experiment??? Thanks, TIM
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"Flirtin' with Disaster" BBQ Team (RETIRED)
FBA and KCBS Cook and Judge. Former owner of a WSM, a Smokey Joe, a Charbroil Commercial gasser (junk), the legendary "StudeDera", a FEC100, a Fast Eddy PG500, and Sherman the Wonder Trailer. Just sold Yoder YS640 due health New Ninja Woodfired Grill for Christmas 2023 |
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01-24-2005, 09:31 AM | #2 |
Grand Poobah and Site Admin
Join Date: 08-11-03
Location: Long Island, NY
Name/Nickname : Phil
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KC and I were talking about this last week. In the new vertical offset pit(that i no longer have. :( was made so the fire can be slid out of the firebox and into the vertical chamber under the water pan. The intention was to remove the waterpan at the end of a cook and go for a more direct heat effect. Hopefully this would fix the chicken skin and also help produce a dryer bark. In the BYC however, I dont always use water. So even going strictly offset with dry heat, I still had a softer bark and rubbery chicken skin. The only way to improve that was to, at the end of a cook, move closer to the heat source and get temps into the grilling range >400.
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Site Administrator and Grand PooBah CBJ with a Fuzzy Blue Hat, 18 Foot Competition Trailer, Customized Klose BYC, Custom Built Shirley built to feed our Veterans(A.K.A "Abrams"), 1 Double Barreled Lang 84, 1 Heavily Modified Bionic Bandera, 1 Custom Super Medium Stickburning Spicewine w/stoker, 2 XL BGE, 1 Mini BGE, 2 Pit Barrel Cookers, 3 WSMs, 3 Weber Kettles, an NB Hondo, A Modified Brinkman Horizontal, DCS 48" Grill, a Broilmaster P3, a Blackstone 36 and 17, a covered, pellet pooping FEC100, and our duck died. :( News Flash: "A mans worth is judged by the weight of his integrity " You know your getting older when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy Smoke on KC. WWW.BBQ-BRETHREN.COM |
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01-24-2005, 05:24 PM | #3 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 09-13-04
Location: Columbia Missouri
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My Smokers utilize both moist and dry heat. In competition I use moist heat and then at the end empty the water pan and firm up the bark for the last hour or so with dry heat. We have won many times and always finish in the top numbers.
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The "Sauce Whisperer" SPICEWINE IRONWORKS Award Winning Smokers, Sauces and Spices Columbia Missouri www.spicewineironworks.com PERFECT 180 CHICKEN 2011 1ST. PLACE PORK AMERICAN ROYAL (OPEN) 2012 PERFECT SCORE180 IN RIBS 2013 BEST SAUCE IN THE WORLD ( BLUE COLLAR ) AMERICAN ROYAL 2009 & 2017 BEST RUB IN THE WORLD ( HEFFER DUST ) AMERICAN ROYAL 2007 MOFO Chapter CISC Master BBQ Chef |
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01-24-2005, 05:26 PM | #4 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: 04-08-04
Location: Marianna, FL
Name/Nickname : Tim
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Quote:
TIM
__________________
"Flirtin' with Disaster" BBQ Team (RETIRED)
FBA and KCBS Cook and Judge. Former owner of a WSM, a Smokey Joe, a Charbroil Commercial gasser (junk), the legendary "StudeDera", a FEC100, a Fast Eddy PG500, and Sherman the Wonder Trailer. Just sold Yoder YS640 due health New Ninja Woodfired Grill for Christmas 2023 |
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01-24-2005, 06:38 PM | #5 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 08-26-04
Location: Stuart, Florida
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Amazing, Phil! I was contemplating the same thing this weekend. Spraying, wrapping and dry coolering my Brisket last bash, seemed to make the bark real moist. I kinda pride myself on my Brisket rub, and using the dry cooler seemed to take the "bite" away from it - although it made it like budda! Has anyone tried unwrapping it after a couple of hours in the cooler, then putting it back on the rack for an hour or so? Or even throwing it on the grill and kinda searing the bark for a short time?
My guests didn't notice (they were too busy stuffin' their faces), but I did.
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"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind" Modified Bandera Charmglow All Stainless Gas CB 26 1/2" Kettle ECB Fabricated All-Wood Burn Barrel BC Select Outdoor Fryer |
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01-24-2005, 06:58 PM | #6 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 08-13-03
Location: Clearwater, FL
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Unwrapping in the cooler won't accomplish anything - the moisture is still there. The cooler time is 1. to hold the heat until you're ready to eat and/or 2. to finish off the last of the tenderizing - so unwrapping is futile.
If you get good product without cooler time then don't change!! :D Putting a brisket on the grill after I've worked 8-12 hours - I don't think so! The extra handling would tend to rub the bark off. You usually don't have an extra grill at a cook off and time is the one thing that is in really short supply! At competition the more you handle the product the bigger chance you'll fark it up, drop it, overcook it, or burn it. That's the reason we're kicking this around in the COMPETITION forum - drier cooking to near the very end is probably the answer - foil only if you have to before prep. What we do at cook offs is not necessarily what we do at home -- for example: my fall off the bone ribs at home!!
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Dave Southern Brethren BBQ Competition Team "It's all about getting paid!" - Myron Mixon "I love being hated in my hometown!" - David Hair KingFisher Gator Rotisserie cooker (RIP), WSM (RIP), Stainless 5 burner with IR gas grill (RIP), Turkey Fryer, Weber JD Commemorative grill (RIP), Masterbuilt 40" insulated ELECTRIC smoker (new heating element), Pit Boss Tailgater pellet pooper. |
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01-24-2005, 07:06 PM | #7 | |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 08-26-04
Location: Stuart, Florida
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Quote:
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"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind" Modified Bandera Charmglow All Stainless Gas CB 26 1/2" Kettle ECB Fabricated All-Wood Burn Barrel BC Select Outdoor Fryer |
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01-24-2005, 07:54 PM | #8 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 08-13-03
Location: Clearwater, FL
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I'm not trying to control the forum -- it's just that we're discussing competition turn-in and the timing and methodology may change. Tim is sounding out competitors to see what their consensus is for getting bark under the constraints of a cook off.
But, if you get good brisket bark using a technique different from the forum then stick with it!! Brethren don't have the only answer (heck we even argue over mustard!) - but all the different techniques will yield good product - just a bit different.
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Dave Southern Brethren BBQ Competition Team "It's all about getting paid!" - Myron Mixon "I love being hated in my hometown!" - David Hair KingFisher Gator Rotisserie cooker (RIP), WSM (RIP), Stainless 5 burner with IR gas grill (RIP), Turkey Fryer, Weber JD Commemorative grill (RIP), Masterbuilt 40" insulated ELECTRIC smoker (new heating element), Pit Boss Tailgater pellet pooper. |
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01-24-2005, 08:11 PM | #9 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: 04-08-04
Location: Marianna, FL
Name/Nickname : Tim
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Quote:
My "home cooking" does not resemble what we do for competetion. No problem for me--two different worlds and goals. TIM
__________________
"Flirtin' with Disaster" BBQ Team (RETIRED)
FBA and KCBS Cook and Judge. Former owner of a WSM, a Smokey Joe, a Charbroil Commercial gasser (junk), the legendary "StudeDera", a FEC100, a Fast Eddy PG500, and Sherman the Wonder Trailer. Just sold Yoder YS640 due health New Ninja Woodfired Grill for Christmas 2023 |
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01-24-2005, 08:40 PM | #10 | |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 08-26-04
Location: Stuart, Florida
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Quote:
__________________
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind" Modified Bandera Charmglow All Stainless Gas CB 26 1/2" Kettle ECB Fabricated All-Wood Burn Barrel BC Select Outdoor Fryer |
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01-24-2005, 08:41 PM | #11 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 08-11-03
Location: Chicago Southwestern Burbs, but always south of Madison Ave.
Name/Nickname : Professor Dickweed
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I don't compete, but have followed J Minions tips on getting good bark
I now make sure to incude a good amount of sugar, or brown sugar, in my rubs. And my spray bottle always has something sweet I get awesome bark
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. Bill-Chicago The death of "willkat98" Me: If you aren't woke, that means you're still sleeping, right? Kid today: That's racist! Bandera, M-BGE, WSM, Gold Kettle, Kenmore Gasser, 36Qt Turkey Fryer, ECB, Dutch Oven, Black Iron BBQ Viper-M, Blackstone 36" Griddle |
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01-24-2005, 08:44 PM | #12 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: 04-08-04
Location: Marianna, FL
Name/Nickname : Tim
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Quote:
Notice any difference between Dry Heat and Wet Heat??? TIM
__________________
"Flirtin' with Disaster" BBQ Team (RETIRED)
FBA and KCBS Cook and Judge. Former owner of a WSM, a Smokey Joe, a Charbroil Commercial gasser (junk), the legendary "StudeDera", a FEC100, a Fast Eddy PG500, and Sherman the Wonder Trailer. Just sold Yoder YS640 due health New Ninja Woodfired Grill for Christmas 2023 |
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01-24-2005, 08:45 PM | #13 | ||
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 09-17-03
Location: Wichita, Kansas
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Quote:
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Bigdog Senior member of the Brethren Weber Platinum Kettle, Weber OTS, Meco square grill, a PK, ECB, UDS, Large BGE, a camping grill, a Blackstone flattop, a Camp Chef grill,The MOAB, and a YS640. MOINK. Pitman for Andy Groneman at the All Things BBQ cooking classes. Smoke on Brother KC Father of the Fatty (the name) 4/20/04 on the BBQ Brethren with inspiration from Brother parrothead. |
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01-24-2005, 09:04 PM | #14 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: 04-08-04
Location: Marianna, FL
Name/Nickname : Tim
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Quote:
My "home que" is meant for the friends, family, and neighbors. I use no rubs, just inject (as appropriate) and spray. Ribs are "fall off the bone". Most Brisket is chopped or pulled for samiches. No "aging" or other tedious chores. Buy good stuff, prep it, cook it, and enjoy! I do not even fuss over skin on the chickie (fact is, I just pull it off first--easy). Just great food for the "consumers". In competetion, my "consumer" is the judges. To get great scores from them, we have to make them happy, We must conform to their expectations, norms, and tastes if we want to succeed. "Best" is in their mind--not mine (although I wish it were). I have no problem with that at all. Just looking for "the edge" to help. TIM
__________________
"Flirtin' with Disaster" BBQ Team (RETIRED)
FBA and KCBS Cook and Judge. Former owner of a WSM, a Smokey Joe, a Charbroil Commercial gasser (junk), the legendary "StudeDera", a FEC100, a Fast Eddy PG500, and Sherman the Wonder Trailer. Just sold Yoder YS640 due health New Ninja Woodfired Grill for Christmas 2023 |
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01-24-2005, 09:11 PM | #15 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: 04-08-04
Location: Marianna, FL
Name/Nickname : Tim
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Quote:
Jay, You still have me thinking (I know, a dangerous thing)! Have you experimented with "all dry" or "all moist"? Any thoughts on the Pros and Cons of each? Thanks, TIM
__________________
"Flirtin' with Disaster" BBQ Team (RETIRED)
FBA and KCBS Cook and Judge. Former owner of a WSM, a Smokey Joe, a Charbroil Commercial gasser (junk), the legendary "StudeDera", a FEC100, a Fast Eddy PG500, and Sherman the Wonder Trailer. Just sold Yoder YS640 due health New Ninja Woodfired Grill for Christmas 2023 |
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