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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 07-22-2009, 10:42 AM   #46
ChiTown_Porker
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my brain hurts now.
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Unread 07-22-2009, 10:52 AM   #47
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But did you learn anything??

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Unread 07-22-2009, 11:22 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardF View Post
time? in foil your brasing the meat 100% humidity. even if you have a microcliamte around the meat, some boundary layer effect it wouldn't be 100% humidity and your not brazing the meat. if it's a microclimate that develops around what's being cooked, why would the amount being cooked make a difference. no matter how many butts/briskets you have in the cooker, there has to be sufficient airflow thru the cooker to keep the fire burning so there's always airflow across the meat. i also don't think (even if the micro-climate idea is correct) that meat sealed in foil is undergoing the same cooking process as unwrapped meat in a full cooker.
It may not be the exact same process but it may produce the same outcome. Protecting the vapor barrier around the meat.

Now, all things being equal at the start of the cook for all briskets, fat to lean tissue ratio, % of moisture in the meat, total weight. Any change in any of these and results will vary, maybe to a great degree.

O #1 - When cooking BBQ, I want the vapor barrier there as long as possible because I think this leads to a product with greater moisteure content when finished. At some point introduing foil to protect the brisket from loosing it's vapor barrier "too soon" works well. The more meat you have in your smoker the less likely it is that you will need foil to accomplih this. Cooking 250*

O #2 - This vapor barrier cannot be replaced by a pan or water sitting in the smoker.

O #3 - Any water vapor produced by a water pan will likely move right on out of the cooker along with the smoke and any water vapor produced by combustion of the fuel. I don't see it hanging around inside the cooker. The Vapor around the food is different.

O #4 - The time is takes for meat in a full smoker to dry out will be longer than the same smoker with one brisket in it. Even though a smoker full of meat may show a rebound temp time of only 40 minutes longer that one with one brisket in it, the smoker is still under load. It has a somewhat reduced airflow especially around the meat and has to work harder to maintain the temps while the meat is still cooler than the temp in the cooking chamber.

So, I think that foiling brisket can replicate a full smoker better than some other methods. I actually beleive tha unwaxed butcher paper is much better than foil in this regard as it protects the vapor barrier and lets some moisture out in the process.
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Unread 07-22-2009, 12:42 PM   #49
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will Professor Skippy Burger please come to the faculty lounge?

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Unread 07-22-2009, 12:56 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardF View Post
I'd wager a cold beer that the relative humidity (i'm guessing 100%) inside the foil of a wraped brisket would be much higher than therelative humidity of a fully-loaded smoker. to recreate the humidty of multiple briskets (or butts as the case may be) i'd think you'd be much better-off with a water pan.
exactly what i was thinking. I didnt read the entire thread yet, but i would think a pan of water would do the same thing in a large cooker with little meat.
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Unread 07-22-2009, 01:09 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZILLA View Post
It may not be the exact same process but it may produce the same outcome. Protecting the vapor barrier around the meat.

Now, all things being equal at the start of the cook for all briskets, fat to lean tissue ratio, % of moisture in the meat, total weight. Any change in any of these and results will vary, maybe to a great degree.

O #1 - When cooking BBQ, I want the vapor barrier there as long as possible because I think this leads to a product with greater moisteure content when finished. At some point introduing foil to protect the brisket from loosing it's vapor barrier "too soon" works well. The more meat you have in your smoker the less likely it is that you will need foil to accomplih this. Cooking 250*

O #2 - This vapor barrier cannot be replaced by a pan or water sitting in the smoker.

O #3 - Any water vapor produced by a water pan will likely move right on out of the cooker along with the smoke and any water vapor produced by combustion of the fuel. I don't see it hanging around inside the cooker. The Vapor around the food is different.

O #4 - The time is takes for meat in a full smoker to dry out will be longer than the same smoker with one brisket in it. Even though a smoker full of meat may show a rebound temp time of only 40 minutes longer that one with one brisket in it, the smoker is still under load. It has a somewhat reduced airflow especially around the meat and has to work harder to maintain the temps while the meat is still cooler than the temp in the cooking chamber.

So, I think that foiling brisket can replicate a full smoker better than some other methods. I actually beleive tha unwaxed butcher paper is much better than foil in this regard as it protects the vapor barrier and lets some moisture out in the process.
But that's only assuming you are cooking with the fat cap up and the kingsford Ks facing the same direction, right?
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Unread 07-22-2009, 01:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
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I didnt read the entire thread yet
Shame on you....You know better then that. Come back whe you are fully versed on the conversation.
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Unread 07-22-2009, 01:23 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQchef33 View Post
exactly what i was thinking. I didnt read the entire thread yet, but i would think a pan of water would do the same thing in a large cooker with little meat.
Yup...I agree. If I'm not cookin' with a water pan...I'm foiling...
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Unread 07-22-2009, 01:41 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake View Post
will Professor Skippy Burger please come to the faculty lounge?

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Unread 07-22-2009, 01:42 PM   #55
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Quote:
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But that's only assuming you are cooking with the fat cap up and the kingsford Ks facing the same direction, right?
Try and keep up OK!
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Unread 07-22-2009, 06:40 PM   #56
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What about wrapping with plastic wrap first and then foil to protect the plastic? I have done this before with great results.
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Unread 07-22-2009, 07:03 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
Wow thank for that insight. I always wondered why it burned my food. lol



Funny I think I can speak to this not because of BBQ experience but work experience. I am a quality control specialist for an asphalt production facility. The quote around here is, "If you can't move air you can't make asphalt". The production facility is a big vacuum cleaner. Air is forced through the system to drag the heavy moistened air out of the chamber. The heavier the production and the greater the moisture the harder it is to create heat in the aggregate (sand and stone). Each aggregate particle has surface and internal moisture. The surface moisture leaves quickly while more therms and time are required to push the moisture from the micro fractures. During this process the stone will not heat above boiling point. I think the same thing goes for meat in a cooker. The barrier Zilla speaks of is that internal moisture being driven off. Now to speak to the full or empty chamber. When it has rained and we try to push the maximum ton per hour through the plant it gets choked out because there is too much moisture in the air. The air flow slows and stalls in some places. Since hot air rises the heat from the flame is pulled past these heavy pockets of moistened air and right out the stack. The hot air follows the path of least resistence and bypasses the heavy air. This then chokes down the flame because the moisture now changes the oxygen content for combustion. A pit works very similar. If the meat in the box is producing a heavy air pocket in the cooker then the heat will follow the path of least resistance and bypass the heavy air which will sit around the meat. Just my humble opinion.
wow! i never knew an asphalt plant was like a giant smoker. i always thought making asphalt was like a rice krispie treat with the aggregate being the rice krispies and the marshmallow cream being the asphalt cement. you need to heat the marshmallow cream and mix it with the rice krispies at the right temperature to get it to mix well, then smash it in the pan (compaction) but do not compact too much because you'll break all the aggregate and it won't taste good.

(that analogy is copyrighted by me and you shall never speak of it again!)
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Unread 07-22-2009, 08:03 PM   #58
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Rick, not exactly correct, as A.C. has coarse and fine aggregate. You would need to make the rice crispies the fines and then add some coarse material, like chocolate chips or toasted peanuts to make it a more true analog to A.C. paving.
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Unread 07-22-2009, 08:35 PM   #59
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Aw chit,
Next thing you know they'll be filling our potholes around here with rice krispie treats...
Sheesh...


but I still use a water pan.
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Unread 07-22-2009, 09:26 PM   #60
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ya foil doesnt help or hurt
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