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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 02-28-2009, 05:27 PM   #151
thirdeye
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Okay, that's it. I'm going for the big hair. I doubt I can pull off the Sly Stone look, but maybe Whammer Jammer. Last time I saw MD was in St. Louis in '92, maybe he's grey now.....


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Unread 02-28-2009, 05:50 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
Richard Pryor is in my Beale Street Red and Wett at 1:13 into it. You will notice at first I say water - Billy Ocean... but these days I just add straight Richard Pryor... although now that I am in Texas, and it is red and wett sauce... I add something just from this area called..... Big Red.... just havn't come up with a Funk Figure for it.
I just finished a Big Red. Got em in Cali. Nothing like a red soda water w/bbq!

How about Millie Jackson for Big Red? Kinda harsh and hard to swallow until you get used to it.

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Unread 02-28-2009, 06:03 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmista View Post
I just finished a Big Red. Got em in Cali. Nothing like a red soda water w/bbq!

How about Millie Jackson for Big Red? Kinda harsh and hard to swallow until you get used to it.

Heheee. Soda water, that's what we called all of 'em when I was a little boy in Texas. Big Red, RC, Dr. Pepper, all the Fanta drinks, Cream Soda and an orange one called Nesbitts.

Later on, everybody called everything a Coke, as in "Y'all want a Coke"....."Yeah"...."What kind?"
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Unread 03-01-2009, 08:32 PM   #154
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just to throw in a status report..

one brisket this week to return to the simple basics.

Layer of kosher salt.
thin layers each of garlic, onion, celery salt.
Layer of black pepper.
no sauce, no injections, and a great brisket that tasted like brisket, not candy.
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Unread 03-01-2009, 08:35 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQchef33 View Post
just to throw in a status report..

one brisket this week to return to the simple basics.

Layer of kosher salt.
thin layers each of garlic, onion, celery salt.
Layer of black pepper.
no sauce, no injections, and a great brisket that tasted like brisket, not candy.
Curious. Would you turn in that brisket for a competition?
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Unread 03-01-2009, 08:55 PM   #156
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that was the topic at tonights dinner. I was pressing the issue as to how this would do in comps. My wife being the harshest critic, has been 100% accurate when she chooses which entry to turn. She gave it a 9,9. In the past 2 years EVERY time she said "USE THAT ONE", it has won. We did not rate appearance. keep in mind, it was also a reheat.

So to answer your quetions.. absolutly.. But i dont think the intent of this thred is to produce competition quality.. What I took out of this thread, is that sometimes basics is better and after years of tweaking, I have been overthinking/overestimating my product.

that being said, IMO, It WAS a competition quality brisket flavor wise. My son gave it an 8, my wife and daughter two 9's. I would go with 8 in taste and 9 in T&T. But i did NOT dress it and I think a minute in the au-jus, or some contest TLC, would give it the enhancment it needed for me to go to a 9. Last night, while eating it at 3AM, and unable to stop, i think it would have been perfect.

it was 3AM though. :)
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Unread 03-01-2009, 09:04 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQchef33 View Post
just to throw in a status report..

one brisket this week to return to the simple basics.

Layer of kosher salt.
thin layers each of garlic, onion, celery salt.
Layer of black pepper.
no sauce, no injections, and a great brisket that tasted like brisket, not candy.


Do me a favor will you? The next time you have dogs (beef dogs), and they can be on the pit or just pan fried ones, mix up equal parts of garlic powder, onion powder and celery salt. Add a few pinches to the dogs as they cook.....Then let me know what you think.
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Unread 03-01-2009, 09:12 PM   #158
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So thirdeye...when is your book coming out? I want one.
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Unread 03-01-2009, 09:19 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigabyte View Post
So thirdeye...when is your book coming out? I want one.
Well, so far I have the Introduction, Acknowledgements and Section Names sketched in. It's a work in progress.
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Unread 03-01-2009, 10:57 PM   #160
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I have ranted, bitched and moaned about how I felt brisket had gotten away from itself in competitions as more and more competitions started. I have receive some conmsternation due to my style and methods of getting it across.

Well I will say this.... this simple style.... this old school style that was a throw back to the days when only texans did briskets in competitions (or the neighboring states) well....

NO I HAVE TO GET FUNKY AGAIN...

I told Bigmista this once a while ago. Its 1982 and the Funky Sound was high in Hornz... you know... seawind horns with Micheal Jackson and the Off the Wall Album, Earth Wind and Fire, all them cats... along comes PRINCE... all the sounds of hornz are replaced by SYNTHS.... he made that sound and Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Janet Jackson all copied that sound....People ate 1999 Album era up. When he was recording When Doves Cry Agents of Warner Brother's said... you got to have a strong bassline in Black Radio. He NIXED the bass in the entire song......... BAMN Platinum!

Then when that got tired he switched to live hornz.... Sexy MF, Willing and Able, Samples even in Gett Off were hornz.

fast forward... today... all we get is prepackaged pop of people that can't even sang and hip hop with a techno sound (stealing from Prince's old licks)

Along comes Prince with a new Band, Horns and all, once again as funky but short of synths. 2004 he had the biggest grossing tour that year, even beat out Madona at around 95 million. In 2008 he played 21 Nights in London's O2 Arena, selling out 20,000 tickets each night in the same damn town. Best selling tour with NO RADIO HITS making the entire Recording Industry Irrelevant in one full swoop.

And if you think my logic only applies to the funk... what do you think Garth Brooks is gonna do when he is good and ready?

So... back to BBQ. Judges do get tired of tasting the same thing over and over, EVEN IF ITS PERFECT LOLOLOLOL, but now that so much about the brisket has been OVERTWEAKED for them.... the old basic Funk, that James Brown Vibe, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson will seem like its pushing the envelope.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQchef33 View Post
that was the topic at tonights dinner. I was pressing the issue as to how this would do in comps. My wife being the harshest critic, has been 100% accurate when she chooses which entry to turn. She gave it a 9,9. In the past 2 years EVERY time she said "USE THAT ONE", it has won. We did not rate appearance. keep in mind, it was also a reheat.

So to answer your quetions.. absolutly.. But i dont think the intent of this thred is to produce competition quality.. What I took out of this thread, is that sometimes basics is better and after years of tweaking, I have been overthinking/overestimating my product.

that being said, IMO, It WAS a competition quality brisket flavor wise. My son gave it an 8, my wife and daughter two 9's. I would go with 8 in taste and 9 in T&T. But i did NOT dress it and I think a minute in the au-jus, or some contest TLC, would give it the enhancment it needed for me to go to a 9. Last night, while eating it at 3AM, and unable to stop, i think it would have been perfect. It was 3AM though. :)
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Unread 03-01-2009, 11:39 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
I have ranted, bitched and moaned about how I felt brisket had gotten away from itself in competitions as more and more competitions started. I have receive some conmsternation due to my style and methods of getting it across.

Well I will say this.... this simple style.... this old school style that was a throw back to the days when only texans did briskets in competitions (or the neighboring states) well....

NO I HAVE TO GET FUNKY AGAIN...

I told Bigmista this once a while ago. Its 1982 and the Funky Sound was high in Hornz... you know... seawind horns with Micheal Jackson and the Off the Wall Album, Earth Wind and Fire, all them cats... along comes PRINCE... all the sounds of hornz are replaced by SYNTHS.... he made that sound and Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Janet Jackson all copied that sound....People ate 1999 Album era up. When he was recording When Doves Cry Agents of Warner Brother's said... you got to have a strong bassline in Black Radio. He NIXED the bass in the entire song......... BAMN Platinum!

Then when that got tired he switched to live hornz.... Sexy MF, Willing and Able, Samples even in Gett Off were hornz.

fast forward... today... all we get is prepackaged pop of people that can't even sang and hip hop with a techno sound (stealing from Prince's old licks)

Along comes Prince with a new Band, Horns and all, once again as funky but short of synths. 2004 he had the biggest grossing tour that year, even beat out Madona at around 95 million. In 2008 he played 21 Nights in London's O2 Arena, selling out 20,000 tickets each night in the same damn town. Best selling tour with NO RADIO HITS making the entire Recording Industry Irrelevant in one full swoop.

And if you think my logic only applies to the funk... what do you think Garth Brooks is gonna do when he is good and ready?

So... back to BBQ. Judges do get tired of tasting the same thing over and over, EVEN IF ITS PERFECT LOLOLOLOL, but now that so much about the brisket has been OVERTWEAKED for them.... the old basic Funk, that James Brown Vibe, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson will seem like its pushing the envelope.

What I take away from this is that competition BBQ is schizophrenic.

Here goes... BBQ has an initial accepted, conservative definition. The envelope is then pushed by some who refuse to be defined by convention (Prince), which is received with great acceptance, except for the purists (Industry).

Here's where I get confused...Does the new guard (Prince) become the old guard (Prince 2.0) by going back to the original convention once proving that the new convention worked? Or once the envelope bursts because of unskilled cooks seeking glory instead of purity (Prince Thieves) polluting the air with continual over tweaking, the purist (Ray Charles) is back in vogue? Or is it both. I was kind of lost on the innovation of Prince and then the stripping away all of the new innovations to take it back.

If either are true, then the only relevant standard in BBQ is what tickles the tongue "Right Now". If the old school "sound" is what is hip, then that is what you roll with. When that sound becomes passe, then you better start innovating (tweaking). At some point the tweaking also becomes passe and what was old is now new again.

Looking back through the history of KCBS comp BBQ (the only history I'm really versed in) there are many signs o the times (Did you see what I did there?) that had their day, but were more a flash in the pan.

Here's what I think... for what it is worth. Good is good. Complex and simple can both be good and work at a competition. You catch the timing right with either direction and you could walk away a hero. It is like an artist who was either ahead of their time... or behind. A strong foundation of your craft is key whether you are a pitmaster or a funkmaster. I'll be doing a S&P brisket soon to exercise my skills and bring it back.
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Unread 03-01-2009, 11:42 PM   #162
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Another thought in reflecting on your metaphor is that tweaking has only destroyed BBQ and Music by those who don't understand where the roots are and where they are taking their art. The evil is not the act of tweaking itself, but in its wreck less use.
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Unread 03-01-2009, 11:53 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
Another thought in reflecting on your metaphor is that tweaking has only destroyed BBQ and Music by those who don't understand where the roots are and where they are taking their art. The evil is not the act of tweaking itself, but in its wreck less use.
and that, I believe is where I was heading.
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Unread 03-02-2009, 11:53 AM   #164
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Seriously, no fooling. Probably the best essay I have read on this in quite a while. I wish I had room for this first sentence in my signature. Brilliant what you took away from this. Its both one and both. Like Miles David said about Prince can be applied to BBQ.... he is neither girl or boy, but both Bytch and Pimp rolled up into one. That's why I named James Brown and Little Richard as Brown and White Sugar repectively.

Plowboy, genius. Truly and intellectual angle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
What I take away from this is that competition BBQ is schizophrenic.

Here goes... BBQ has an initial accepted, conservative definition. The envelope is then pushed by some who refuse to be defined by convention (Prince), which is received with great acceptance, except for the purists (Industry).

Here's where I get confused...Does the new guard (Prince) become the old guard (Prince 2.0) by going back to the original convention once proving that the new convention worked? Or once the envelope bursts because of unskilled cooks seeking glory instead of purity (Prince Thieves) polluting the air with continual over tweaking, the purist (Ray Charles) is back in vogue? Or is it both. I was kind of lost on the innovation of Prince and then the stripping away all of the new innovations to take it back.

If either are true, then the only relevant standard in BBQ is what tickles the tongue "Right Now". If the old school "sound" is what is hip, then that is what you roll with. When that sound becomes passe, then you better start innovating (tweaking). At some point the tweaking also becomes passe and what was old is now new again.

Looking back through the history of KCBS comp BBQ (the only history I'm really versed in) there are many signs o the times (Did you see what I did there?) that had their day, but were more a flash in the pan.

Here's what I think... for what it is worth. Good is good. Complex and simple can both be good and work at a competition. You catch the timing right with either direction and you could walk away a hero. It is like an artist who was either ahead of their time... or behind. A strong foundation of your craft is key whether you are a pitmaster or a funkmaster. I'll be doing a S&P brisket soon to exercise my skills and bring it back.
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Unread 03-02-2009, 11:59 AM   #165
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Exactly. A Mistake all of us have made and might make. I left a highly successful BBQ competition team when I moved from Texas long ago to Tennesee. In the early 90's I was lost... no competitions even had Brisket round here. But I had a background in Kreuz, Angelos, even Walter Jetton Family. But what did I do... in my zeal to try and make my own path I ended up lost. I am about to cook 30 Briskets for an organization. It is STILL hard to forgo my Butt Glitter Sprinkle for ego's sake. But every time I reduce the complexity and stick within that salt and pepper range (plus I am hot and fast) everyone thinks I have done something special. And really I haven't... or have I?

So in essence... even those that understand the Funk, or George Jones can end up lost by tweaking too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
Another thought in reflecting on your metaphor is that tweaking has only destroyed BBQ and Music by those who don't understand where the roots are and where they are taking their art. The evil is not the act of tweaking itself, but in its wreck less use.
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