ブタ
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Catering, Food Handling and Awareness

Notices

Catering, Food Handling and Awareness *OnTopic* Forum to educate us on safe food handling. Not specifically for Catering or competition but overall health and keeping our families safe too.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 12-19-2008, 08:33 PM   #1
AlabamaGrillBillies
is one Smokin' Farker
 
AlabamaGrillBillies's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-07
Location: Birmingham Alabama
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Branding...??

So I have a question about 'branding' your own sauce. Its really more of a moral question than a technical how do you go about bottling your own sauce.

Here is the question:

A year or two ago I was in a bbq store and saw a book by the BBQU guy Steve Raichlen I think. Anyhow it was full of about 100 sauce recipes. I saw one that looked good. Went home and tried it and liked it a lot. I ended up tweaking the sauce recipe a bit. I cut one of the ingredients in half (there are 11 total ingredients) and substituted apple cider for apple juice (doesn't sound like a lot but it made a noticeable difference). We have been using this sauce as "our" sauce. When we cater we use it, when we sell product by the pound, we use it. People really like the sauce, it is relatively cheap to make and has a good shelf life.

I'd like to brand it as our sauce, not to sure on bottling and selling, that's kinda down the road right now.

Given the above, what do you guys feel about the situation. Would you sell it as your sauce, would you consider bottling and mass producing?
__________________
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Leverguns, 1911s and BBQ Thank God i'm American!

Matt Pair, member of the AlabamaGrillBillies Cookteam and Catering company. Check us out!
http://www.algrillbillies.com
Its grillin' time ya'll.
AlabamaGrillBillies is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-19-2008, 09:02 PM   #2
MilitantSquatter
Moderator
 
MilitantSquatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-17-05
Location: Mooresville, NC
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

If you think it's good, have the energy to bottle and market and believe that consumers would buy and enjoy it for a fair price... then by all means go for it !!!

Given that you've tweaked it, it's definitely your own...

Chit... many sauce recipes start with ketchup... Think anyone is concerned with how Heinz or Hunt's feels about that ? The other half all basically have all the same ingredients also
__________________
Lonestar 24" Vertical offset w/ Insulated Firebox & Performer Platinum
Former owner: Jambo Backyard, Klose BYC, Med. Spicewine, Pitts & Spitts, XL & (2) Med. BGE's, 22" WSM & (2) 18" WSM's, 18" & 22" Weber Kettles
MilitantSquatter is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-19-2008, 09:14 PM   #3
KC_Bobby
Babbling Farker
 
KC_Bobby's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-03-07
Location: Gardner KS
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Check to see if the other recipe is patented. If not, you should legally be OK to patent your recipe. If the original is patented - then they might have some legal rights as far as slight changes one way or the other - check with a lawyer. If you patent it, register and trademark the brand.

I respect your moral concerns
__________________
Boondoggle BBQ
Country Smokers 450
Weber Smokey Mountain 18"
Proud KCBS Member & Certified Judge

KC_Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-19-2008, 09:45 PM   #4
Plowboy
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Plowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-09-06
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Patenting "flavors" is almost impossible and definitely not something you typically see. Look at every name brand of every food item in your local grocery store and then look next to the item for the "store brand" item which is virtually the same. If the big boys aren't able to protect their IP, I wouldn't worry about it... legally. I'm not talking ethically.

The original author of your starter recipe may have a copyright protection because it is in the book and the book has a copyright. However, they intend for you to MAKE it and USE it. Look at your book and see if there is anything there that says that these recipes cannot be used commercially. Most likely there isn't. The author and publisher likely doesn't care, or they wouldn't have published their prized recipe. Even if they did, they'd find it fairly impossible to come back and protect the intellectual property.

Legally... don't sweat it one bit.

Ethically... don't sweat it. You are modifying what you learned from a source made available to the general public.
__________________
Pork Pullin Plowboys (and Smoke on Wheels)
Save a hog, ride a plowboy!
www.plowboysbbq.com

Todd Johns (me); Blue Springs, MO
Randy Hinck (PigBoy); Concordia, MO
Andy Groneman (Hodedo); KC, KS (Cameo Appearances)

FEC-500SS; FEC-100 (Right handed); FEC-100 (Left handed); Country Smoker Tailgater; Big Green Egg (2-large, small, mini); Cookshack Pellet Fired Charbroiler
Plowboy is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-19-2008, 09:52 PM   #5
AlabamaGrillBillies
is one Smokin' Farker
 
AlabamaGrillBillies's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-07
Location: Birmingham Alabama
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Thanks guys, and Todd I was hoping to hear from you on this. I have a couple of questions about labels and shakers I'll pm to in a day or two so I won't hijack this thread.

Gonna still think this one over, and take a good look at that book again.

But most of you have firmed up what I was thinking, if they put it out in the book, it must not have been some big secrete and they probably aren't worried about a small business using the sauce.

Now for naming it....
__________________
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Leverguns, 1911s and BBQ Thank God i'm American!

Matt Pair, member of the AlabamaGrillBillies Cookteam and Catering company. Check us out!
http://www.algrillbillies.com
Its grillin' time ya'll.
AlabamaGrillBillies is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-19-2008, 10:03 PM   #6
Plowboy
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Plowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-09-06
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Find your packer first. They will have a label maker that you can work with. There are specific things that will need to be on your label in a specific way. You'll want a label maker that knows these things. Some don't. Make your co-packer review your label as well. Since they made your product for you, they have liability until that product is consumed. Oh, and get some business insurance... and an LLC... and a State Tax ID... and pay your sales tax!

Make them sign a nondisclosure before you give them a recipe. The first packer I talked to didn't know what an NDA was. They didn't get my recipes!

If you want to do some bottling yourself, check out Fruend Container. Great customer service with those guys.

Your co-packer may have bar codes that you can use, but understand that using their barcode makes it harder to leave them since you've invested in labels. The more labels you buy the less expensive they are. I buy 5000 at a time, which isn't much compared to some products.

I don't know what it takes to get a sauce off the ground, but a rub costs about $2000-$2500 as an initial investment. You could enter with a lower investment, but your costs per unit are going to be a LOT higher. The first product takes some Moink Balls to take the initial step. The second and third products get easier and easier. You have more confidence, cash flow, and retailers. In other words, you aren't starting at ground zero.

Good luck!
__________________
Pork Pullin Plowboys (and Smoke on Wheels)
Save a hog, ride a plowboy!
www.plowboysbbq.com

Todd Johns (me); Blue Springs, MO
Randy Hinck (PigBoy); Concordia, MO
Andy Groneman (Hodedo); KC, KS (Cameo Appearances)

FEC-500SS; FEC-100 (Right handed); FEC-100 (Left handed); Country Smoker Tailgater; Big Green Egg (2-large, small, mini); Cookshack Pellet Fired Charbroiler
Plowboy is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-19-2008, 10:13 PM   #7
TN_BBQ
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 06-02-08
Location: Knoxville, TN
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I was at a flea market and saw folks selling their BBQ sauce. I guess that's one way to get it done.
__________________
Life's a party with a Backwoods Party!
TN_BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-19-2008, 10:58 PM   #8
KuyasKitchen
is one Smokin' Farker
 
KuyasKitchen's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-27-08
Location: Tacloban, Leyte, Philippines
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Yup, if you have tomatoes, vinegar, and onion in your sauce ... that's the basis for tomato ketchup.

It's the tweaks and substitutions that make it your own.
__________________
James
Kuya's Kitchen - my culinary adventures in the rural Philippines

IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller
Equipment: Weber Kettle, Stainless GOSM,
Green Super-Fast Thermapen
Equipment Wish List: Smokehouse, Backyard Brick Pit with Lechon Spit
KuyasKitchen is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-19-2008, 11:21 PM   #9
Bbq Bubba
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Bbq Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-03-07
Location: New Baltimore, Mi.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Find your packer first. They will have a label maker that you can work with. There are specific things that will need to be on your label in a specific way. You'll want a label maker that knows these things. Some don't. Make your co-packer review your label as well. Since they made your product for you, they have liability until that product is consumed. Oh, and get some business insurance... and an LLC... and a State Tax ID... and pay your sales tax!
Well if that don't scare you off, nothing will.

Good luck!
__________________
Pitmaster @ Lockharts BBQ
Beer Snob
I cook the best brisket north of Dallas. Get over it.
Northern midwest director for OBR
www.operationbbqrelief.com
#detroitporkmafia
BBQ Person of the Year 2013
Bbq Bubba is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-20-2008, 06:17 AM   #10
Dr_KY
Quintessential Chatty Farker
 
Dr_KY's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-15-07
Location: England
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

How and where do you find a company to blend/make rubs?
__________________
www.drsweetsmoke.com

Slappin that bass like some delerious funky preist!!!


UDS, Half Pint (Mini UDS), Weber, ProQ 20, Kegrilla
*250 gallon cooker- 'The Meat Beast!!'*


British BBQ Championships
Grand Champion 2008
~~~~
British BBQ Society - Southern Championship
Grand Champions 2009
Dr_KY is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-20-2008, 06:49 AM   #11
keend
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Join Date: 05-16-08
Location: Geneva, IL
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_KY View Post
How and where do you find a company to blend/make rubs?
  1. You can start with the PLMA (Private Label Manufacturers Association). Also do a search on co-packers.
  2. Find local seasoning brands and talk to them about co-packing. They are usually looking for more business to cover their overhead and will do small runs.
  3. Talk to the big guys (Griffith Labs, Baltimore Spice, Elite Spice, Milwaukee Seasoning, Flavorite, etc.) They will not want your business, but they usually know smaller minority and woman owned businesses that they refer low volume business to.
__________________
Dave
Geneva, IL

Misplaced in the Mid-West

NB Bandera
22.5" Weber Kettle
[COLOR=black]22.5" WSM[/COLOR]
keend is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-20-2008, 06:50 AM   #12
Plowboy
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Plowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-09-06
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_KY View Post
How and where do you find a company to blend/make rubs?
Google - There are some sites that have directories that will help you.

Here's one that I found in TN. None in Alabama that I've run across yet.

http://porkysgourmet.com
__________________
Pork Pullin Plowboys (and Smoke on Wheels)
Save a hog, ride a plowboy!
www.plowboysbbq.com

Todd Johns (me); Blue Springs, MO
Randy Hinck (PigBoy); Concordia, MO
Andy Groneman (Hodedo); KC, KS (Cameo Appearances)

FEC-500SS; FEC-100 (Right handed); FEC-100 (Left handed); Country Smoker Tailgater; Big Green Egg (2-large, small, mini); Cookshack Pellet Fired Charbroiler
Plowboy is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-20-2008, 07:02 AM   #13
Spydermike72
Babbling Farker
 
Spydermike72's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-17-06
Location: Flushing Michigan
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbq Bubba View Post
Well if that don't scare you off, nothing will.

Good luck!
Check with your state on the taxes (you would be surprised how helpful they are and for free, again at least here in Michigan), for instance, in Michigan there is no tax on food items unless they are prepared. So a rub or sauce that you bottle and sell would not require any sales tax in Michigan, you would have Income Taxes though. Please consult a Tax Attorney or CPA just to cover your self.
__________________
Mike
Rubbed,Smoked, and Sauced BBQ Team Powered by Bar's Leak and Rislone
RSSBBQ.COM
Backwoods Competitor
Backwoods Party
Ranch Kettle,Weber Performerl
Certified Moink Baller
President of the Great Lakes BBQ Association

For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know
Spydermike72 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-20-2008, 07:23 AM   #14
Dr_KY
Quintessential Chatty Farker
 
Dr_KY's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-15-07
Location: England
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
Google - There are some sites that have directories that will help you.

Here's one that I found in TN. None in Alabama that I've run across yet.

http://porkysgourmet.com
I'm little lost, if I wanted to have someone make my rubs and sauces so I could market them what would I search for on Google?


Sorry it's all new to me.
__________________
www.drsweetsmoke.com

Slappin that bass like some delerious funky preist!!!


UDS, Half Pint (Mini UDS), Weber, ProQ 20, Kegrilla
*250 gallon cooker- 'The Meat Beast!!'*


British BBQ Championships
Grand Champion 2008
~~~~
British BBQ Society - Southern Championship
Grand Champions 2009
Dr_KY is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-20-2008, 07:41 AM   #15
Bbq Bubba
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Bbq Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-03-07
Location: New Baltimore, Mi.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_KY View Post
I'm little lost, if I wanted to have someone make my rubs and sauces so I could market them what would I search for on Google?


Sorry it's all new to me.
Co-packers, you can't do this kind of thing at home.
__________________
Pitmaster @ Lockharts BBQ
Beer Snob
I cook the best brisket north of Dallas. Get over it.
Northern midwest director for OBR
www.operationbbqrelief.com
#detroitporkmafia
BBQ Person of the Year 2013
Bbq Bubba is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BBQ Branding Irons! Smokin Turkey Q-talk 6 04-08-2009 03:47 PM
Branding Irons Plowboy Q-talk 3 01-01-2007 12:40 PM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts