עָטִין
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ > For the Board

Notices

For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 06-23-2008, 09:39 PM   #1
Plowboy
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Plowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-09-06
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Auditing/Training CBJ Instructors

No one has more impact on KCBS competition BBQ than the CBJ instructors. They shape and mold those that will soon determine the fate of dozens of competition teams. I've heard crazy things coming from CBJ instructors like "white meat will be dry" or "brisket cut thinner than a #2 pencil is undercooked and tough".

Does the board know what is being instructed? Is there a "train the trainer" course for CBJ instructors? Do Board members audit CBJ courses to monitor what is being instructed?
__________________
Pork Pullin Plowboys (and Smoke on Wheels)
Save a hog, ride a plowboy!
www.plowboysbbq.com

Todd Johns (me); Blue Springs, MO
Randy Hinck (PigBoy); Concordia, MO
Andy Groneman (Hodedo); KC, KS (Cameo Appearances)

FEC-500SS; FEC-100 (Right handed); FEC-100 (Left handed); Country Smoker Tailgater; Big Green Egg (2-large, small, mini); Cookshack Pellet Fired Charbroiler
Plowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-24-2008, 07:18 AM   #2
Merl
Full Fledged Farker
 
Merl's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-13-06
Location: Tulsa, Ok
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
No one has more impact on KCBS competition BBQ than the CBJ instructors. They shape and mold those that will soon determine the fate of dozens of competition teams. I've heard crazy things coming from CBJ instructors like "white meat will be dry" or "brisket cut thinner than a #2 pencil is undercooked and tough".

Does the board know what is being instructed? Is there a "train the trainer" course for CBJ instructors? Do Board members audit CBJ courses to monitor what is being instructed?
Hi Todd, good question.
White meat will be dry? Not my white meat. I have not heard that.

There is a part of the class discussing brisket. The instructor will indicate that cook may adjust his/her product by the slice thickness. If it is too tender, a thinker cut. If it is tough, a thinner cut. This discussion is part of the "pull test" for brisket.

The #2 pencil is an IBCA standard, not KCBS.

The board does not audit classes. However, I know that Ed from time to time audits classes and critiques the class. If he receives a comment which is of concern he will contact the instructor.

On the Board there are 5 of the 13 instructors. So while there is not a formal audit, the board is connected into the cbj instruction and its content.

Merl
Merl is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-24-2008, 08:08 AM   #3
Plowboy
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Plowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-09-06
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I don't see the need to discuss the thickness of brisket slices. By doing so, you are setting a predisposition with the judges before they've even tried the food. You can't judge tenderness by appearance... at least not in KCBS.

Ed has, and I believe still is, using the #2 pencil standard in his classes.
__________________
Pork Pullin Plowboys (and Smoke on Wheels)
Save a hog, ride a plowboy!
www.plowboysbbq.com

Todd Johns (me); Blue Springs, MO
Randy Hinck (PigBoy); Concordia, MO
Andy Groneman (Hodedo); KC, KS (Cameo Appearances)

FEC-500SS; FEC-100 (Right handed); FEC-100 (Left handed); Country Smoker Tailgater; Big Green Egg (2-large, small, mini); Cookshack Pellet Fired Charbroiler
Plowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-24-2008, 08:48 AM   #4
ZILLA
is Blowin Smoke!
 
ZILLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-01-05
Location: Universal City, Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

The IBCA does not have a standard. The rules say the slices should be between 1/4" and 3/8" thick. The #2 pencil analogy is a reference given at the cooks meetings for the benifit of new cookers not judges. If the head judge takes the tray at the turn in table then it gets judged.
ZILLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-24-2008, 10:12 AM   #5
BBQ_Mayor
is One Chatty Farker
 
BBQ_Mayor's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-14-07
Location: Cambridge,Ia
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Something should be done to help standardize the judges into thinking the same thing.
When I went through the training, I was also told about the size of a pencil.
If that is what they want to say then all instructors should be on the same page.
__________________
Ray
Smokehouse 72 Competition Cooking team
Visit our Facebook page - Smokehouse72
WSM
Whole Hog Smoker
CBJ #4643
BBQ_Mayor is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-24-2008, 12:28 PM   #6
Plowboy
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Plowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-09-06
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

The primary points that I want to make is that CBJ instruction should be as uniform as possible and provide a basis for how KCBS contests are to be scored.

How about some Computer Base Training (CBT) modules (aka instructional videos) on the KCBS Web site highlighting some key take aways from the courses? This wouldn't replace instructed certification, at least not yet. The online videos could serve as refreshers for CBJ's and cooking teams.

- Definition and examples of boxes with six identifiable pieces (some new judges still don't get that a pile of pork is enough for six judges.
- Examples of DQ entries: garnish, marking, sculpting, pooling sauce, etc.

Just as a couple of examples.
__________________
Pork Pullin Plowboys (and Smoke on Wheels)
Save a hog, ride a plowboy!
www.plowboysbbq.com

Todd Johns (me); Blue Springs, MO
Randy Hinck (PigBoy); Concordia, MO
Andy Groneman (Hodedo); KC, KS (Cameo Appearances)

FEC-500SS; FEC-100 (Right handed); FEC-100 (Left handed); Country Smoker Tailgater; Big Green Egg (2-large, small, mini); Cookshack Pellet Fired Charbroiler
Plowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-24-2008, 02:30 PM   #7
CajunSmoker
is Blowin Smoke!
 
CajunSmoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-06-07
Location: Rolling down the river between St Louis and New Orleans
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

My instructor mentioned the #2 pencil deal about brisket, but he said to not judge the brisket on the thickness of the slice. He said some cooks have started turning in thick slabs of brisket the last couple of seasons because it looks good in the box and it doesn't have anything to do with it being overcooked.
__________________
Rodger

How y'all are? I'm glad you got to see me I guarontee Justin Wilson 4/24/1914 - 09/05/2001
CAJUN QUE KREWE Proud ARKLAFO
KCBS member & CBJ#24398
Twin CoonAss Ugly Drum Smokers
Brinkman Smoke King Deluxe
Brinkman Gourmet ECB with super chicken mods
Weber OTS kettle
CajunSmoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2008, 01:16 PM   #8
LindaM
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 02-13-05
Location: New Jersey
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

There is a powerpoint presentation which is being developed with Ed Roiths guideance. Once this is released it will be used in ALL CBJ classes. It may not be until early 2009 but it is in the works.
LindaM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
KCBS CBJ Training in North Carolina bbq.tom Competition BBQ 1 12-03-2010 04:01 PM
Comp Classes Instructors motoeric Competition BBQ 28 02-24-2010 01:41 PM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.