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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 01-27-2014, 07:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
I was watching the travel channel this weekend and they had a tour of some bbq regions by state and one was Tennessee and the Memphis in May BBQ event. Almost every shot shown of teams preparing ribs absolutely caked on brown sugar, honey, butter or all of the above.

I looked at that and knew without having to taste it. There's NO WAY I could eat those ribs. I understand the "judges only getting one bite" thought process and I agree. But as a general spectator there's no way someone could actually taste much of the meat on many of the ribs I saw. I guess that is the difference in competition ribs and backyard ribs.
You can't knock it until you tried it and try it without any preconceived notions which at this point is probably impossible. Certainly those extra ingredients do add sweetness, but it isn't like every ounce of brown sugar and butter ends up in the ribs or sitting on top of it when you take a bite. It all becomes a liquid that adds an additional layer of flavor to the ribs that is then drained off before finishing. I have added those things and in some variation still do and do not think my ribs are candy or overly sweet at all.

Not all that different than slapping a sugary (honey, brown sugar, molasses, etc) sauce on there. And yes some folks don't like those sauces either I know. But sugary sauces seems completely acceptable vs the butter/brown sugar step which is not.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 07:04 PM   #32
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Great observation Bamabuzzard! I agree.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 07:19 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnbish View Post
You can't knock it until you tried it and try it without any preconceived notions which at this point is probably impossible. Certainly those extra ingredients do add sweetness, but it isn't like every ounce of brown sugar and butter ends up in the ribs or sitting on top of it when you take a bite. It all becomes a liquid that adds an additional layer of flavor to the ribs that is then drained off before finishing. I have added those things and in some variation still do and do not think my ribs are candy or overly sweet at all.

Not all that different than slapping a sugary (honey, brown sugar, molasses, etc) sauce on there. And yes some folks don't like those sauces either I know. But sugary sauces seems completely acceptable vs the butter/brown sugar step which is not.
I've cooked enough ribs and messed with enough rubs and sauces that I can get a pretty good indication how sweet something will be by seeing the amount of sugar and or butter is put on a slab of ribs. I've done it myself and know what the tasted ended up as.

I may not know the exact taste but I bet I can get a good idea as to where the taste will fall on the taste profile.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 07:27 PM   #34
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Here are my two cents... If you're into competitions you can be right all you want and finish middle down or conform to the standard and have a chance. You're cooking for judges and sweet is clearly their preference. If you're not into KCBS competition BBQ, pay no attention to the method. Make the ribs the way you and your family prefer.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 07:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnbish View Post
You can't knock it until you tried it and try it without any preconceived notions which at this point is probably impossible. Certainly those extra ingredients do add sweetness, but it isn't like every ounce of brown sugar and butter ends up in the ribs or sitting on top of it when you take a bite. It all becomes a liquid that adds an additional layer of flavor to the ribs that is then drained off before finishing. I have added those things and in some variation still do and do not think my ribs are candy or overly sweet at all.

Not all that different than slapping a sugary (honey, brown sugar, molasses, etc) sauce on there. And yes some folks don't like those sauces either I know. But sugary sauces seems completely acceptable vs the butter/brown sugar step which is not.
It's all about a balance of sweet, salt, spice, savory and good pork flavor in general. The rib is judged on it's own merits and is not compared to others. If the judge does his job correctly, any combination or lack of the above criteria are ignored and the rib is judged on it's own. I've given high scores to properly cooked ribs with only salt an pepper notes. KCBS MCBJ...
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Unread 01-27-2014, 07:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
I've cooked enough ribs and messed with enough rubs and sauces that I can get a pretty good indication how sweet something will be by seeing the amount of sugar and or butter is put on a slab of ribs. I've done it myself and know what the tasted up as.

I may not know the exact taste but I bet I can get a good idea as to where the taste will fall on the taste profile.
Gotcha. So then would it be safe to assume that if I had tasted a lot of bbq sauces in my day and know I don't like overly sweet ones that I could steer clear of a sauce that has dark brown sugar, molasses, high fructose cornsyrup and corn syrup because I make the assumption that is has to be over the top sweet with those 4 sugary ingredients without actually trying it??

Or maybe I would try it because even though I see what is going into it someone said it has a nice combination of sweet, spicy and tangy flavor. So the dark brown sugar, molasses, highfructose cornsyrup and corn syrup were only one level to the sauce as there were other ingredients that went into making the end product well rounded and balanced. But sometimes folks only see the shock value step that is highlighted without seeing the others steps/ingredients involved to make an excellent end product.........
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Unread 01-27-2014, 07:44 PM   #37
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My my, what a topic
I cook in competitions in KC area.
I cook against some of the best teams in the country.

I hold the following as facts!

I have eaten a lot better ribs at a BBQ restaurant than some back yard ribs.

I have never eaten better ribs at a BBQ restaurant than at a BBQ contest.

I cook on a BBQ team and I also judge at contest.

NO, I do not judge at the contest I cook in ;)

A flavor balance is key!

I like them sweet but not to sweet, spicy but not two spicy.

We have placed first in ribs a a contest with over 180 teams.

I could have eaten 2 racks of those ribs.

Yes I do use honey for the money.

And like it!
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Unread 01-27-2014, 07:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongTong View Post
It's all about a balance of sweet, salt, spice, savory and good pork flavor in general. The rib is judged on it's own merits and is not compared to others. If the judge does his job correctly, any combination or lack of the above criteria are ignored and the rib is judged on it's own. I've given high scores to properly cooked ribs with only salt an pepper notes. KCBS MCBJ...
I 100% agree here. And to me the step of foiling with all previously mentioned stuff is just adding a layer of sweet. All of that doesn't penetrate the meat or coat it in some 1/2" layer of sugar crusted "overthetopness". There are other steps to balance it out. Granted some folks may top it with a sweet sauce as well, but you can definitely balance it out to make it have a little sweetness with some boldness too.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 07:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landarc View Post
I can't speak to other regions, but, in California, most people seem to prefer a sweet, over-cooked rib, they also seem to prefer sweet, mushy, strings of pork. I have noticed that they also seem to prefer brisket that has been braised in beer and syrup.
I have to agree with Landarc. Keeping in mind I did not really have a very good grasp of BBQ until I started to frequent this site, I "grew up" in Arizona and had never foiled ribs or braised them in anything remotely sweet. After moving to SoCal it seemed that everyone liked the "fall off the bone" texture and I just never really got it. The first time I cooked the Johnny Trigg foil, butter, brown sugar,Tiger Sauce, all of these Californians thought it was the best.
So I basically try to do ribs both ways when I can. I still dont get it but hey, I'm just the cook.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 08:02 PM   #40
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To some extent don't we all cook for the "judges" whether the judge is in a competition or the judge is your client base or friends and family.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 08:05 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnbish View Post
Gotcha. So then would it be safe to assume that if I had tasted a lot of bbq sauces in my day and know I don't like overly sweet ones that I could steer clear of a sauce that has dark brown sugar, molasses, high fructose cornsyrup and corn syrup because I make the assumption that is has to be over the top sweet with those 4 sugary ingredients without actually trying it??

Or maybe I would try it because even though I see what is going into it someone said it has a nice combination of sweet, spicy and tangy flavor. So the dark brown sugar, molasses, highfructose cornsyrup and corn syrup were only one level to the sauce as there were other ingredients that went into making the end product well rounded and balanced. But sometimes folks only see the shock value step that is highlighted without seeing the others steps/ingredients involved to make an excellent end product.........

In your example no. Because I cannot see the amounts. But when I sit and watch someone cake pure brown sugar, squeeze half a cup of butter and honey onto a slab of ribs. Considering the amounts I just watched being put on there I promise you I can get an idea of its sweetness. It doesn't make me a guru. I've just messed around with rubs and different amounts of sugar, honey, and other spices to know what certain amounts of seasonings do to meat.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 08:08 PM   #42
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Feeling chatty tonight.... BBQ for the judges is for the judges at the comp you are at. BBQ for your family/friends is what they like and BBQ for you is what you like best. Pick your poison and make what you like for the event or not that you are in....

BTW - just to think some folks will ...... TEXAS BBQ is the ONLY REAL BBQ :)
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Unread 01-27-2014, 08:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
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To some extent don't we all cook for the "judges" whether the judge is in a competition or the judge is your client base or friends and family.
No, if past input is to be considered, there are quite a few Brethren who cook in the manner they like, to the flavor they like, and if people don't like it, they can eat pizza.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 08:13 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by deguerre View Post
That certainly explains California Corn Bread then...
Just so's you know, the folks I grew up with in California all ate hot water cornbread, most of them still do. A lot also eat Jiffy cornbread, no sugar added.

Those corn cake people came from the North East.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 08:15 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
In your example no. Because I cannot see the amounts. But when I sit and watch someone cake pure brown sugar, squeeze half a cup of butter and honey onto a slab of ribs. Considering the amounts I just watched being put on there I promise you I can get an idea of its sweetness. It doesn't make me a guru. I've just messed around with rubs and different amounts of sugar, honey, and other spices to know what certain amounts of seasonings do to meat.
But again there are other steps that balance it out for a lot of people that do it that way. Clearly I'm not going to change your mind, but if you haven't tried a method you can't form a valid opinion. Even if you have "been around the block".

I think you missed the point I was making as well. Was it too subtle?
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