The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ

Notices

Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 11-30-2013, 12:28 PM   #196
djqualls
Full Fledged Farker

 
djqualls's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-08-10
Location: Tecumseh, OK
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Not to hijack but.... This whole rules confusion is the product of teleconference meetings.

No organization can adequately function when their business is conducted via teleconference only. The BoD has too many members as it is. The rules should be written plain and simple with foot notes to the intention. When you write a constitutional essay for each rule you get the KCBS catalog of Pork Rules...

After cooking 36 contests in 11 different states this year, No two were regulated with any consistency. This is a Administrative deficiency in which in turn once again is a BoD responsibility which will never be addressed telephonically.

It would seem from the outside looking in that the whole organization needs an update/overhaul. This whole Pork debacle represents that, but that won't happen until the money runs out I suppose.
__________________
The American Dream BBQ Team

Jambo J5 "The Dream Maker"
R&O Trailer Pit
Gateway "Insane" Can
3x FEC100's
Cookshack Charbroiler
Lagre Big Green Egg
djqualls is online now   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 11-30-2013, 03:03 PM   #197
Bubba
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 04-30-06
Location: Eugene Missouri
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Amen brother.
__________________
Uncle Bub's BBQ LLC
Trash Can Cookers
2007 American Royal Open Grand Champions
Bubba is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 11-30-2013, 05:05 PM   #198
Scottie
Babbling Farker
 
Scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-06
Location: Chi-Town
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

The Dream in 2015!!!!
__________________
cancersuckschicago.com
FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA BBQ TOUR

Red Jambo one off
FE 100
FEC 100
WSM
Homer Simpson 22 " Weber Kettle
Red 18 1/2" Weber Kettle
Black 26 3/4" Weber Kettle
Scottie is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 11-30-2013, 06:03 PM   #199
djqualls
Full Fledged Farker

 
djqualls's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-08-10
Location: Tecumseh, OK
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
The Dream in 2015!!!!

Only if we can meet in a Cage..... Now That'd Be Funky!
__________________
The American Dream BBQ Team

Jambo J5 "The Dream Maker"
R&O Trailer Pit
Gateway "Insane" Can
3x FEC100's
Cookshack Charbroiler
Lagre Big Green Egg
djqualls is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 11-30-2013, 08:08 PM   #200
CBQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
CBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-11-09
Location: Cumberland, RI
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by djqualls View Post
The rules should be written plain and simple with foot notes to the intention. When you write a constitutional essay for each rule you get the KCBS catalog of Pork Rules..
I agree, rules should be simply stated. As written, it's quite clear in it's intent. People are trying to twist it into something it's not by saying stuff like "What does Pork mean anyway?" but that's trying to inject a lot of legalese into a rule that is (rightly) a few sentences.

You have to cook a shoulder, boston butt, or a picnic. You can't cut it up into little pieces until it's cooked. After that, you can. Simply. Easy. We know what it means. The reps know what it means. Trying to wordsmith it into something else is a waste of time.
__________________
Chris
ZBQ Competition BBQ Team, Rhode Island
"The Most Dangerous Team in BBQ" - Jon Vallone
www.teamzbq.com

KCBS, KCBS CBJ, NEBS
CBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 12-01-2013, 06:48 AM   #201
Scottie
Babbling Farker
 
Scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-06
Location: Chi-Town
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

But by not wordsmithing you will get what we had. Folks interpreting it And thinking they can put their pulled, sliced or chunked was not considered parting. Look, the only way this rule will ever be good is to get the BOD to have reps enforce it. The BOD is controlled by reps. Why does anyone think that reps would support this extra work and step? They obviously would rather have teams bending and breaking the rules is what it tells me. Does more cooks on the BOD work? I'm not really sure how this rule clears any confusion, other than people that can't cook can reheat their product after they pull it. This whole crap about serving warm food? BS. I have to wear special gloves to handle my pork and I guess I am in a small percentage of cooks that is good enough to get both pulled and sliced from the same butt. Oh some BOD member will come along and compare what my scores have done recently and maybe I don't really know how to cook pork. Not sure how that adds to any of this mass chaos that has been created and not clearly defined though.....
__________________
cancersuckschicago.com
FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA BBQ TOUR

Red Jambo one off
FE 100
FEC 100
WSM
Homer Simpson 22 " Weber Kettle
Red 18 1/2" Weber Kettle
Black 26 3/4" Weber Kettle
Scottie is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-01-2013, 10:54 AM   #202
CBQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
CBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-11-09
Location: Cumberland, RI
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too. I doubt I'm changing the way I cook pork.
__________________
Chris
ZBQ Competition BBQ Team, Rhode Island
"The Most Dangerous Team in BBQ" - Jon Vallone
www.teamzbq.com

KCBS, KCBS CBJ, NEBS
CBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-01-2013, 02:56 PM   #203
loco_engr
Full Fledged Farker

 
Join Date: 08-24-11
Location: Marysville,KS
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

So whatever the Pork rule is in place in 2014, is it up to the table CBJ's
to look for, or does that happen before?
Thank You!
__________________
LRG & Mini BGE , KCBS CBJ
loco_engr is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-01-2013, 04:10 PM   #204
Smoke'n Ice
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Join Date: 05-08-09
Location: Plano, TX
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBQ View Post
Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too. I doubt I'm changing the way I cook pork.
Crystal clear for whom? Reading the thread indicates that there may be confusion over the 4 lbs, before it is inspected or 4 lbs when it hits the cooker or both? What constitutes trimming? Trimming for some may be parting for others. But parting implies that all will be cooked while trimming implies that some will not be used or cooked. Need a few additional words to actually convey the intent of the rule.

I currently cook 2 8-10 pounds butts and get what I need from them once cooked. Others don't. When I am preparing my turn-in tray, I wear heat gloves so I can pull and slice and chunk. At this stage it is going in the box because turn-in time is less than 5 minutes away. Why do I need to put it back on the smoker? Set the sauce?

I pulled the pork at some temp and placed in a cambro prior to the box stage. Most of the time I have already started the cooling cycle for my cookers and starting the packing process.

I question the need for the rule except for clarification of the old rule unless it is for those who can't cook pork. Just being a devils advocate
Smoke'n Ice is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 12-01-2013, 05:29 PM   #205
White Dog BBQ
Full Fledged Farker
 
White Dog BBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-15-07
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Wow, I never realized the way to see if someone is a great pork cook is to see how hot their pork is while being prepped for the box. Instead of having reps do spot inspections of pork, maybe they should just stick Thermopens into everyone's pork at 12:45 and see whose pork is hottest? Might improve my pork results.

I'm not sure why so much focus is on how a pork butt is cooked, while the other categories have turned into phosphate-laden, butter-braised hunks of meat that bear a passing resemblance to BBQ. Want to accentuate skill in BBQ competitions? Ban the use of phosphates (the only purpose of which is to allow meat to retain moisture if overcooked) and braising in butter (which is not, as far as I understand it, a traditional BBQ cooking method). No, I am not advocating either, but I don't see how we can say a deboned chicken thigh ball injected with phosphates and cooked in a vat of melted Parkay is still a measure of someone's BBQ skill, but allowing someone to reheat their pulled pork is dumbing things down.

Oh, and before anyone asks -- I need to wear thick cotton gloves underneath nitrile gloves when I pull pork. :-)
__________________
Co-Captain, White Dog BBQ

1x Backwoods Smoker Extended Party
1x 18" WSM
1x Red Weber Performer
1x Weber 22.5" OneTouch Silver
1x Weber Genesis Silver B
White Dog BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 12-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #206
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBQ View Post
Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too.
Exactly. The intent of the OLD rule was crystal clear, and yet we ended up with the Pork Collar Advisory being read at every cooks' meeting so that we all could recite it verbatim by the end of the season, and people posting on this very forum that they were damn well going to reheat (or "set sauce" ) whatever they wanted because nobody was going to catch them.

The big push to change the rule to allow returning parted pork to the cooker is just to legalize what was already going on.
__________________
.
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is online now   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 12-01-2013, 06:36 PM   #207
butt head
is one Smokin' Farker

 
butt head's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-29-06
Location: East Norriton,Pa.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
The money muscle is pork!
were can I get a 5lb mm
__________________
John, Butt Head BBQ Team- No IQ required

meadow creek ts250- w/ 42 chicken cooker
butt head is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-01-2013, 06:38 PM   #208
SITM BBQ
Got Wood.
 
SITM BBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-26-13
Location: Fairview, nc
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBQ View Post
Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too. I doubt I'm changing the way I cook pork.
I completely agree, the rule is what it is and I will not change the way I cook pork as I was within the rules last year. I think it is a simple rule as well as it should be. Those who read the rule with no agenda will interpret it as the BOD intended, to challenge the teams to cook a large piece of meat and make it great, without having to separate it into smaller parts precook.
__________________
Smoke in the Mountains BBQ Team; offset reverse flow
SITM BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 12-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #209
MuleTuf
Is lookin for wood to cook with.
 
Join Date: 03-18-09
Location: sikeston mo 63801
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

[QUOTE=Smoke'n Ice;2710619]Another idea for the rule would be as follows:

Current

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection. After trimming, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those.

Suggested
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection. After minimal trimming with all muscle groups left intact with no separation, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those.

Great suggestion but "Cooked" needs to be defined as "Above 160 degrees" ?? otherwise rule benders will throw it on the smoker 5 minutes, then part it and throw it on the grill...
__________________
Tim Sills, Owner, MuleTuf Smokers, MuleTuf Manufacturing., Smelly Butts BBQ Team
MuleTuf is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 12-01-2013, 09:09 PM   #210
CBQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
CBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-11-09
Location: Cumberland, RI
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
Crystal clear for whom? Reading the thread indicates that there may be confusion over the 4 lbs, before it is inspected or 4 lbs when it hits the cooker or both?
It's right there in the rule, at the time of inspection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
What constitutes trimming? Trimming for some may be parting for others. But parting implies that all will be cooked while trimming implies that some will not be used or cooked.
Trimming is removing some of the fat and shaping the meat. Cutting off the money muscle and throwing the rest of the butt out is not trimming. How do we know this? If this was not the intent of the rule, there would be no need to refer to cooking the butt whole. The wording of the rule makes the intent clear. Cook it to 145 degrees and then do what you want with it.

You are correct that trimming implies the trimmed material is waste and not cooked. It's no longer part of the "whole" butt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
I currently cook 2 8-10 pounds butts and get what I need from them once cooked. Others don't. When I am preparing my turn-in tray, I wear heat gloves so I can pull and slice and chunk. At this stage it is going in the box because turn-in time is less than 5 minutes away. Why do I need to put it back on the smoker? Set the sauce?
You don't have to return pork to the smoker, but you could if you wanted to under this rule. I cook my pork whole, and pull just before it's boxed - and this rule change won't alter my process. I could see that at some contests (like the freezing weather at The Jack this year) pulling everything earlier and putting the turn in items back on the heat for a short time before boxing might be a benefit.
__________________
Chris
ZBQ Competition BBQ Team, Rhode Island
"The Most Dangerous Team in BBQ" - Jon Vallone
www.teamzbq.com

KCBS, KCBS CBJ, NEBS
CBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts