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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 11-27-2013, 12:03 AM   #151
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From page 2 of this thread (with a few tweaks to fit the new rule):

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Originally Posted by Rub View Post
I propose that to keep it simple and easy to understand they add an official "FAQ" to the rules. Example:

Rules FAQs

Q: The way I interpret the pork rule, I can cut the money muscle off when it's cooked then return the rest of the butt to the smoker. Is this right?
A: Yes. Pork is considered "cooked" once it reaches 155+ degrees.

Q: Can I trim the butt down to just the money muscle or groups of muscles before I cook it?
A: No, the butt must remain intact except for minor trimming (1 pound or less removed).

Q: Is a Euro cut Boston Roast from SRF legal for competition.
A: No, this isn't Europe, this is America damnit!


Easy peasy.
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Unread 11-27-2013, 12:34 AM   #152
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The BOD has spoken. The could have made it 7 lbs, but they did not. The SNF cut is legal.

Time to practice.
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Unread 11-27-2013, 06:23 AM   #153
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As I see it, there are two practical applications with the new rule:

1) Separating the MM from the rest of the pork when it reaches a certain temperature and leaving the rest of the pork on the cooker.

2) Reheating parts of the pork (MM or otherwise) prior to the turn in.

If people want to cheat or twist the rules however they see fit, I'm sure they will and I'm sure they have already been doing so.
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Unread 11-27-2013, 06:30 AM   #154
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So, with this new rule change for 2014, are the folks who are trimming MM but leaving "in tact" by leaving a sliver of fat cap attached cheating or legal?
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Unread 11-27-2013, 06:49 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ View Post
Lopping the money muscle off a pork butt is not trimming. Stating that it's a cold hard fact and putting an exclamation point at the end doesn't change reality. If you go to get your hair trimmed and they cut it all off or give you a Mohawk I'm pretty sure you'd have a strong case in court against the barber.
I have been going to a barber for over 65 years and every time I have asked for a trim (except in the military) there has been a discussion about what the barber understood me to mean and what I actually meant by the term trim. The accepted definition is:

verb
verb: trim; 3rd person present: trims; past tense: trimmed; past participle: trimmed; gerund or present participle: trimming
  1. make (something) neat or of the required size or form by cutting away irregular or unwanted parts.
it comes down to what the cook considers unwanted parts.

I would ask the question that begs an answer, why change the rule that was not enforced to another rule that lessens the likely hood that it needs to be enforced?
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Unread 11-27-2013, 06:57 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
I have been going to a barber for over 65 years and every time I have asked for a trim (except in the military) there has been a discussion about what the barber understood me to mean and what I actually meant by the term trim. The accepted definition is:

verb
verb: trim; 3rd person present: trims; past tense: trimmed; past participle: trimmed; gerund or present participle: trimming
  1. make (something) neat or of the required size or form by cutting away irregular or unwanted parts.
it comes down to what the cook considers unwanted parts.

I would ask the question that begs an answer, why change the rule that was not enforced to another rule that lessens the likely hood that it needs to be enforced?
This... Teams were already doing it anyway. I guess KCBS just decided to make it legal.
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Unread 11-27-2013, 09:27 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rub View Post
From page 2 of this thread (with a few tweaks to fit the new rule):
Forwarded to the Board, we'll see where it goes.

Steve
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Unread 11-27-2013, 09:32 AM   #158
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Thank-you Steve!!
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Unread 11-27-2013, 10:05 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg Father of Seoul View Post
The BOD has spoken. The could have made it 7 lbs, but they did not. The SNF cut is legal.

Time to practice.
Are you talking about pork collar? If so, there has already been a rep advisory that explicitly states that defines what "Pork" is and pork collar is not a part of that definition. Therefore, illegal meat even with the new rule.

If however you are talking about some other type of pork that would fit the KCBS definition, then I would be curious to know more.
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Unread 11-27-2013, 10:07 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg Father of Seoul View Post
The BOD has spoken. The could have made it 7 lbs, but they did not. The SNF cut is legal.

Time to practice.
Don't they teach reading and COMPREHENSION these days ?

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection. After trimming, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those."

Says Boston Butt, Boston Roast , Picnic and/or whole shoulder. Where does it say Pork Collar or SNF Euro Cut pork roast ? Cheat if you want, you probably won't get caught but if you do remember somebody got banned for 3 years just for wearing a penis apron.
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Unread 11-27-2013, 10:14 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rub View Post
From page 2 of this thread (with a few tweaks to fit the new rule):
Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ View Post
Forwarded to the Board, we'll see where it goes.

Steve
Makes perfect sense to me, I'll forward Rub's suggestion to the board.
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Unread 11-27-2013, 10:19 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
it comes down to what the cook considers unwanted parts.

Actually it doesn't. The fact that you used the word 'parts' in this sentence says it all. Your parting. In the rule it says the pork must be cooked whole. Once you start removing any muscles from the butt it is no longer whole. It is just part of a pork butt.

Trimming is removing unwanted fat and maybe a little meat to get a uniform shape. While your trimming ask yourself...self if I remove this PART of the butt is it still a whole pork butt. Then when it dawns on you that no it will no longer be a whole pork butt leave it on.
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Unread 11-27-2013, 10:54 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ View Post
Cheat if you want, you probably won't get caught but if you do remember somebody got banned for 3 years just for wearing a penis apron.
I was debating weather or not to "weigh" in here, but after this, I see no reason not to:)

As some one who can read, the part that I find interesting is that the rule specifically says that the cut of meat must weigh 4 lb at the time of inspection, not when being placed in the cooker, and it mentions trimming between inspection/weighing and cooking.

The way it's worded, I think it practically encourages people to start out with a "whole" cut and trim away whatever they don't want, whether it's excess or entire muscle groups. Lots of ways to resolve this including allowing it, changing the pre-cook weight, the max-trim weight, or just saying "cheaters will cheat."

I suppose the other question is, at what point does trimming the cut turn it into an illegal cut? I think I heard that there are seven muscle groups in a Pork Butt? Must all seven remain for the cut to be legal and cookable? You aready allow bonless cuts, which convert a 405 to a 405A, and a 406 to a 406A, but you don't allow a long cut shoulder which would be a 403A rather than a 403. There I go geeking out and losing people again. Even still, people can be load 3 lb pieces of meat into their cookers on January 1 the way I read that.

Okay, I'll go back to my corner now.

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Unread 11-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
I was debating weather or not to "weigh" in here, but after this, I see no reason not to:)

As some one who can read, the part that I find interesting is that the rule specifically says that the cut of meat must weigh 4 lb at the time of inspection, not when being placed in the cooker, and it mentions trimming between inspection/weighing and cooking.

The way it's worded, I think it practically encourages people to start out with a "whole" cut and trim away whatever they don't want, whether it's excess or entire muscle groups. Lots of ways to resolve this including allowing it, changing the pre-cook weight, the max-trim weight, or just saying "cheaters will cheat."

I suppose the other question is, at what point does trimming the cut turn it into an illegal cut? I think I heard that there are seven muscle groups in a Pork Butt? Must all seven remain for the cut to be legal and cookable? You aready allow bonless cuts, which convert a 405 to a 405A, and a 406 to a 406A, but you don't allow a long cut shoulder which would be a 403A rather than a 403. There I go geeking out and losing people again. Even still, people can be load 3 lb pieces of meat into their cookers on January 1 the way I read that.

Okay, I'll go back to my corner now.

dmp
Perfect ! Your posting will be enough to distract people from the pork rule LOL.
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Unread 11-27-2013, 11:44 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ View Post
Actually it doesn't. The fact that you used the word 'parts' in this sentence says it all. Your parting. In the rule it says the pork must be cooked whole. Once you start removing any muscles from the butt it is no longer whole. It is just part of a pork butt.

Trimming is removing unwanted fat and maybe a little meat to get a uniform shape. While your trimming ask yourself...self if I remove this PART of the butt is it still a whole pork butt. Then when it dawns on you that no it will no longer be a whole pork butt leave it on.
Perhaps, perhaps not - When you trim a Beef Tenderloin roast you cut the chain and the head wrap off - These are two fairly large chunks of meat - it's still a tenderloin roast when you're done and it might go from 8 lbs in the cryo to 5lbs finished.

Another example - I go to the butcher to get butts and they don't have any, All they have are whole shoulders. I don't have time to trim it before going to the contest. I arrive and get the whole shoulder inspected (12 lbs). I then skin and trim it down to a butt-ish looking chunk - Trimming or butchering/breaking down? By your definition of trimming after inspection this would be illegal.
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