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For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter.


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Unread 08-06-2013, 09:30 AM   #16
carlyle
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Civil War- if the system would let me thank you more than once, I would.

What you do is quite close to what I do with check in. Bless you. Will the new KCBScore give us organizers more judging info to allow a more precise sort of judges to lower the odds of "cold tables" and "hot tables" ???

We too use the best Reps available. And yes it is a busy time, but communication is vital.

Yes, judging is a privilege - agree whole heartedly.
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Unread 08-06-2013, 06:08 PM   #17
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First, let me say that I am NOT speaking for KCBS on this - only for myself as an experienced judge.

KCBS has absolutely nothing to do with how judges are selected or where they sit. These are strictly up to each individual organizer and each one can do it his/her own way.

Some organizers go on a straight "first come - first served" basis. Some use only Certified BBQ Judges, some use their friends, celebrity judges, lodge members, etc. Some use the same judges every year and the only way to get a seat is if some one drops out.

Most organizers use a combination of the above methods for selecting their judges.

Most organizers also keep a list of judges that they have had trouble with in the past - try not to be on that list .

The KCBS Contest Rep is there to enforce the rules and to make sure that the contest runs smoothly and fairly for all concerned.
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Unread 08-07-2013, 05:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlyle View Post
Will the new KCBScore give us organizers more judging info to allow a more precise sort of judges to lower the odds of "cold tables" and "hot tables" ???
Now THAT is the burning question!

I don't know the answer, and I suspect that given how new KCBScore is there has not been an official policy decision made yet. I can see the potential for both good and bad things happening should the data be made available to organizers. Here are a few examples:
  • Organizers could use the data to eliminate judges who habitually issue low scores from their event. (Good)
  • Organizers could use the data to pack tables with judges who habitually score high, in hopes of developing a reputation for being a high scoring event and thus attracting more teams. (Bad)
  • Organizers could leak this information about specific judges to cooks, effectively breaking the blind and possibly leading to harassment of low scoring judges. (Bad)
  • Freshly minted judges who have been scoring consistently with their tables could have an easier time getting work at contests who previously passed them over because of a lack of experience. (Good)
  • Fearing "black listing", judges could begin to artificially elevate scores , inflating results and leading to many ties as all scores below 7 become functionally obsolete. (Bad)
The idea who will have access to the judge tracking data is definitely intriguing and bound to spawn a lot of debate over the next few months. These will be interesting times for KCBS members!
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Unread 08-07-2013, 05:26 PM   #19
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I do not know if it is a burning question, but it sure will be smokin for a while!

I see your points for abuse, and they are valid. And in my mind, habitual high scorers are just as bad as the low ones.

But the data is golden for being able to level the tables. If your contest develops or has a reputation for fair and consistent judging, that does a lot to attract teams to your contest. Sky high scores invite questions and makes everyone wonder what is going on.

Being able to bring on less experienced judges with some confidence that they will do a good job when you do not have previous experience with them would make judge selection easier. Right now it is a crap shoot about who to choose to fill out what you need after the judges you know are being used and you still need some more.

The Reps I know do not want to black list anyone, but rather rehabilitate those who regularly score too low or too high. My attitude also.

Judges need the feedback about how they are doing. It is like taking a lot of tests, but never knowing what grade you got. Some of the lows or highs will self correct when they get feedback.

There needs to be a lot of education from KCBS to diminish the fear factor with judges being tracked.

After all, the cooks are tracked about how they do at every category at every contest. And the scores are there for the world to see! But they know that will be the case before they enter a contest.

Keeping the double blind private for judging is just as important as having scores public for the cooks.

Everything I see and hear about the new scoring system says it is a step in the right direction.

Interesting times - you said it right.
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Unread 08-07-2013, 11:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loco_engr View Post
Do CBJ's has precedence over off the street, non-qualified KCBS judges
at an KCBS event?
Where would I find an answer to this on the KCBS site?
Thanks

Side note: today, after signing in, I was told to "go grab a seat at a table."

I was NOT told what tables were for the judges.
I sat on an unoccupied table, right in front (3 rows back)
of the sign in location.
I was not the last person to arrive, more came in after me.
When the Reps started to sort everyone out as to seating
arrangements, I was told I was extra and not needed for
judging. Fortunately, someone decided they didn't want to judge,
so an seat opened up. The table I was at, had an off the street
person, (never judged before) already sitting there.

Thanks any/all help!
Update: CBJ Percentage: 96%
Musta been the dude @ my table?
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Unread 08-08-2013, 12:25 AM   #21
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Remember that the organizer has many more cards to play than the one hand a judge is dealt.

Running an event is complex with lots of moving parts and political implications in the community, and the organizer has to try to appease not only the cooks and judges but also the volunteers, sponsors and the press. Sometimes the best play is to put that non-CBJ on a table when he represents a big sponsor or powerful media outlet.

Certainly sometimes organizers make a less than optimum choice, but more often than not there is more to the situation than we realize looking from the outside in.
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Unread 08-08-2013, 10:52 AM   #22
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Civil War, there is truth to what you say. But I keep the contest at 100% CBJ's.

We use VIP judges for our Backyard contest and our Kids Q. Satisfies everybody.

Plus I bring a few extra CBJ's ( who know they are extra) for no shows or late cancellations. If they are not needed by me, they go to the Backyard and judge with the VIP's. The CBJ's also know about that before they come.

Not the only way to do it, but just my way of balancing a lot of complicated and political factors.

So Loco engr- here are a couple of insights into your situation from our side of things.
I just hope you have some happier times judging. Wishing you the best.
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Unread 08-08-2013, 03:37 PM   #23
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I'm pretty sure I know which contest you are speaking of. I emailed the organizer and was told "We can use you, I will email details on Monday". I never got an email, never got a reply to my followup email. At that point, I decided not to drive 2 1/2 hours on a maybe. I guess I was the missing CBJ.

Also, table assignments should never be 'go find a seat'.
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Unread 08-08-2013, 03:46 PM   #24
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MikeJ65:

I don't think you were definitely the missing CBJ.
I person that gave up the seat I got, decided
that since one of her family members wasn't needed
and turned away, they left.
I don't blame you for not risking a 2 1/2 hr drive, not knowing
for sure!
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Unread 08-08-2013, 07:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJ65 View Post
Also, table assignments should never be 'go find a seat'.
Don't know where you usually judge, but that is more common in the Southeast than actually having an assigned seat. Maybe with the new KCBScore system the organizers/REPs will try to even the tables other than just by experience if they even do that.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 03:14 PM   #26
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Should I expect a response from KCBS to an email
I sent a week ago?
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Unread 08-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #27
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My general rule of thumb is if I don't get a response to email within 3 days I follow up with a phone call. Email is not a reliable service - many messages end up in a spam filter or simply disappear amid the junk mail and are never read. This is especially true when you send an unsolicited message to an address you have never communicated with before.

Short answer - call the office if you need to communicate with KCBS.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 10:10 PM   #28
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Gotta love VIP judges..... I personally hate them and wonder if several of them together are a reason for a low tables.
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Unread 08-14-2013, 07:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScott View Post
Gotta love VIP judges..... I personally hate them and wonder if several of them together are a reason for a low tables.
That's why I keep them to the ancillaries at my events.

I can appreciate the sentiment, however as long as we need sponsors to help cover the costs of putting on contests, VIP judges will be a necessary evil. Unless of course cook teams become willing to pay $800 entry fees to contests!
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