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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 07-15-2013, 11:51 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Headed View Post
We liked the new format, now if it could only teach me how to cook brisket

or pork for us ha ha....

its ok, i can see this causing some table bashing and such, but hey more ways to blame others for my failure to cook is always a good thing right ?? lol ha ha...
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Unread 07-15-2013, 11:58 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan - 3eyzbbq View Post
I like it. We finished Gettysburg with 1st Chicken, 2nd ribs, 2nd pork and 15th place brisket.

Now, for the breakdown. We won each table we landed on, except brisket where we were 2nd. The highest score on brisket was 158, and finished 13th.

I don't know if its a "bad" table, but certainly we all scored low on that table.
Clearly I'm missing something - How do you know what tables everyone else landed on? (other than asking each team) I only see what tables we landed on.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:01 PM   #33
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Look at each sheets breakdown, next to the judges scores. You, for instance, never landed on table 2.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamdunkpro View Post
Clearly I'm missing something - How do you know what tables everyone else landed on? (other than asking each team) I only see what tables we landed on.
If you look on the individual sheets for each meat it will show to the right of each team what table they were on.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:13 PM   #35
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so when is this to be rolled out across KCBS? Sure wish we had ours from the 3 we've done so far!
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:27 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoke&Smoke View Post
so when is this to be rolled out across KCBS? Sure wish we had ours from the 3 we've done so far!
This past weekend was the first time we've seen them. I'm sure you'll see it now when you compete KCBS. It was full of great information for us to analyze our scores.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimebbq View Post
With at least 13 tables, wonder why the reps and table captains allowed two of his meats on the same table.
Thinking out loud here, but the later the category(eg brisket), the harder it is to avoid a duplication.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoke&Smoke View Post
so when is this to be rolled out across KCBS? Sure wish we had ours from the 3 we've done so far!
My understanding was this past weekend.

I think it is farking awesome. I learned more the past two days pouring over the score-sheets than I have the past five years. Thank you KCBS!
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:48 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake View Post
I do think it will help you get a better understanding of whether your score is a byproduct of your cooking or the judges judging.
Exactly right. There is a fair bit of KCBS bashing on here (and I'm not immune to that myself on occasion) but I think KCBS does deserve some kudos here.

The new KCBScore appears to accomplish what it set out to do. It gives the teams more context about their scores. Sean had some good observations about our rib scores and having that info available is valuable to the teams as we ponder the questions about why we got the scores we did. Did we hit a bad table or a good one? Do we have a problem with what we turned in it not? Was a generous table masking a problem we do have? The new system does give us insight we didn't have before.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:54 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake View Post
Take table 4 from the Troy contest Chris and I landed on together in ribs. In that category we were 1 & 2 on the table which was 13th & 20th O/A. During the entire contest only one team recieved a score from that table good enough for a top 10. Table 2 on the other hand had a minimum of 2 entries in the top 5 of each category.
Yeah, I think its important to look at all four categories to determine if a table is "bad". When looking at just one category, there are clearly two options, the table is scoring low or the cooks deserved 13th and 20th place.

Its unlikely that across four categories all the table winning entries are out of the top 10. But for a single category it should be expected.

A great improvement.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 01:02 PM   #41
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I competed at this same contest last weekend as Lotta Bull.

From the printout, Lotta Bull was placed on Table 13 twice.
With 78 teams this should not happen.
Table #13 was the highest scoring table with 7 top ten calls.
This information is provided on the score sheets.

Table numbers for 1st-10th of each catagory
CK, 4, 2, 3, 12, 7, 9, 2, 2, 11, 12
RI, 1, 1, 12, 8, 4, 13, 13, 11, 1,13
PK, 2, 13, 5, 4, 3, 7, 1, 12, 13,13
BK, 10,12, 5, 8, 1, 13, 8, 12, 2, 1

Top 10 calls by table.
Table 1, calls 6
Table 2, calls 5
Table 3, calls 2
Table 4, calls 3
Table 5, calls 2
Table 6, calls 0
Table 7, calls 2
Table 8, calls 3
Table 9, calls 1
Table 10, calls 1
Table 11, calls 2
Table 12, calls 6
Table 13, calls 7

My entries landed on tables 9, 5, 6, 10; the 4 lowest scoring tables for top 10 calls. The lowest scoring judge was Judge 1, on Table 9 with average of 25.1633.
On chicken this judge gave us 6,6,7 = 25.1428
The other judges
#2 9,8,8 = 32.56
#3 9,9,9 = 36.00
#4 8,8,7 = 30.8572
#5 9,8,8 = 32.5600
#6 9,8,9 = 33.7028
His/her score appears to be completely out of line with the other judges. Here are all of the scores this judge gave out for the day:

CK= 28.5600, 34.8800, 25.1428, 28.0000, 20.0000, 26.2972
RI = 29.1428, 25.1200, 19.4400, 24.0000, 15.3828, 18.2972
PK= 19.4400, 29.1428, 25.1200, 24.0000, 15.3828, 18.2972
BK= 27.4400, 27.4172, 32.0000, 29.7028, 30.2972, 24.0000

This judge should be on KCBS's radar.

We were told at the cooks meeting.
The blind number will no longer be on the print out.
Are using the new 2013 scoring weights.
Comments cards have been temporary stopped.
The Judge Average Score is from all 4 catagories.
KCBS will be tracking judges.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 02:10 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ique View Post
Its unlikely that across four categories all the table winning entries are out of the top 10. But for a single category it should be expected.

A great improvement.
I completely agree. I think in this case you can clearly see the trends of different tables. Just as table 4 seems to be on the low end of the scoring, Table 2 seems to be the on the upper end. I think it sucks that my stuff it table 4 and its more personal but I'm not sure that I'm not more upset table 2 was what appears to be an "easy" table. I think it's more unlikely that table happens to have at least 2 of the 5 best cooked entries in each category.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 02:18 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMerrill View Post
I competed at this same contest last weekend as Lotta Bull.

From the printout, Lotta Bull was placed on Table 13 twice.
With 78 teams this should not happen.
Table #13 was the highest scoring table with 7 top ten calls.
This information is provided on the score sheets.

Table numbers for 1st-10th of each catagory
CK, 4, 2, 3, 12, 7, 9, 2, 2, 11, 12
RI, 1, 1, 12, 8, 4, 13, 13, 11, 1,13
PK, 2, 13, 5, 4, 3, 7, 1, 12, 13,13
BK, 10,12, 5, 8, 1, 13, 8, 12, 2, 1

Top 10 calls by table.
Table 1, calls 6
Table 2, calls 5
Table 3, calls 2
Table 4, calls 3
Table 5, calls 2
Table 6, calls 0
Table 7, calls 2
Table 8, calls 3
Table 9, calls 1
Table 10, calls 1
Table 11, calls 2
Table 12, calls 6
Table 13, calls 7

My entries landed on tables 9, 5, 6, 10; the 4 lowest scoring tables for top 10 calls. The lowest scoring judge was Judge 1, on Table 9 with average of 25.1633.
On chicken this judge gave us 6,6,7 = 25.1428
The other judges
#2 9,8,8 = 32.56
#3 9,9,9 = 36.00
#4 8,8,7 = 30.8572
#5 9,8,8 = 32.5600
#6 9,8,9 = 33.7028
His/her score appears to be completely out of line with the other judges. Here are all of the scores this judge gave out for the day:

CK= 28.5600, 34.8800, 25.1428, 28.0000, 20.0000, 26.2972
RI = 29.1428, 25.1200, 19.4400, 24.0000, 15.3828, 18.2972
PK= 19.4400, 29.1428, 25.1200, 24.0000, 15.3828, 18.2972
BK= 27.4400, 27.4172, 32.0000, 29.7028, 30.2972, 24.0000

This judge should be on KCBS's radar.

We were told at the cooks meeting.
The blind number will no longer be on the print out.
Are using the new 2013 scoring weights.
Comments cards have been temporary stopped.
The Judge Average Score is from all 4 catagories.
KCBS will be tracking judges.
Great stuff here. Thanks.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 02:41 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmanryann View Post
My understanding was this past weekend.

I think it is farking awesome. I learned more the past two days pouring over the score-sheets than I have the past five years. Thank you KCBS!
Great just what we need ... you with more information to improve your cooking. :-)
Careful what you wish for people.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 02:53 PM   #45
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As a judge I think this is what I was looking for when I first became one - how do I stack up in my opinions versus that of my table mates? Am I scoring a point or two high across the board? Am I scoring a point or two low across the board? It would have been helpful to know early on rather then having my scores be off kilter to those other judges at my table.

I would have liked to have seen my scores from my first say 10 events versus those at my table for comparison. Would have possibly sped me up to being in tune to other maybe more experienced judges.

As for comment cards - I like them as a judge. I feel I can at least tell a team why I gave them a score that may not be to that of the other judges for whatever reason it may be. This eliminates me from ever being referred to as Judge 6. I can point out that the rib I selected was overdone, my brisket burnt end was all gristle or fat, my chicken piece was mushy, my pork was tough and dry, whatever the reason MY selection may not have been the same as the other 5 judges and thus my marking down on your entry. I am NOT judge 6. You may be team 6 for putting a less then stellar piece of meat in the box and I unfortunately had the bad luck of getting it. I have also filled out a card for a perfect score and told them thanks for making this what it was for me to judge today. Yes my 9's told them I loved all aspects of it. But a note also to say thanks. And also sometimes a 8 or a 7 will get a card from me to just point out what they could have done to bring it to a high score. "Loved the tenderness and appearance. And love spice but this was a little bit more than needed for this entry. Took away from the meats taste".

So I hope the comment cards do come back as for right now these new scoring systems tell you that you got a 9 - 6 - 8 or a 8 - 6 - 5 but none of that tells you why.
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