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View Poll Results: Is the new revised pork rule good for BBQ?
Yes! 33 28.45%
No! 18 15.52%
Meh 19 16.38%
Pork is now a grilling contest 4 3.45%
Nothing changes for me 34 29.31%
Farker! 8 6.90%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 07-14-2013, 12:28 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokedelic View Post
Really Jeff? Maybe you could just get it right and be done with it?

I'm not on the rules committee, but I'll give it a shot...

What's wrong with requiring you start out with a 5 lb. minimum piece of pork shoulder, butt, or picnic, and cook it whole, and then allow it to be returned to the cooker after it's parted?

Seriously....how hard is that?

Maybe third time is a charm?
Exactly, my beef with the new rule is that it is vague where it says "after trimming must be cooked whole." We all trim unwanted parts off of our product, ribs being an excellent example. Who is to say I can't take a but, trim it down to pretty much money muscle, and then cook that whole. Money muscle is pork shoulder. Either define trimming to keep it from being twisted into cutting down the butt in the matter I illustrated, or make there be a weight minimum after trimming.

Is what I am saying crazy??
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Unread 07-14-2013, 10:36 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokedelic View Post
Really Jeff? Maybe you could just get it right and be done with it?

I'm not on the rules committee, but I'll give it a shot...

What's wrong with requiring you start out with a 5 lb. minimum piece of pork shoulder, butt, or picnic, and cook it whole, and then allow it to be returned to the cooker after it's parted?

Seriously....how hard is that?

Maybe third time is a charm?
Why do we need a weight limit on pork? Give me one good reason. If you can, maybe we better add weight to all four categories. If so, lets make brisket at about 14 pounds (no separating point and flat!); maybe chicken whole at 3 pounds (no pieces); Ribs? No St Louis spares - full slabs and at least five pounds only!
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Unread 07-14-2013, 12:43 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC View Post
Why do we need a weight limit on pork? Give me one good reason. If you can, maybe we better add weight to all four categories. If so, lets make brisket at about 14 pounds (no separating point and flat!); maybe chicken whole at 3 pounds (no pieces); Ribs? No St Louis spares - full slabs and at least five pounds only!
Many people feel that part of the fabric of the definition of Barbeque is large cuts, so those folks support using weight as a criteria in certain categories, like pork.

Some people would prefer whole (or half) chickens too for that matter.

Also, the "better add it to all four categories" argument seems specious to me. They are, by definition, different cuts, so they may, by definition, require different rules.
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Unread 07-14-2013, 03:43 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC View Post
Why do we need a weight limit on pork? Give me one good reason. If you can, maybe we better add weight to all four categories. If so, lets make brisket at about 14 pounds (no separating point and flat!); maybe chicken whole at 3 pounds (no pieces); Ribs? No St Louis spares - full slabs and at least five pounds only!
Sounds like real BBQ to me. Let's do it.
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Unread 07-14-2013, 04:11 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by TailGateJoecom View Post
. . . I do think it would be pretty easy to take what was said in this thread, figure out everyone's issues with the new rule, and then incorporate that into making the rule better. . . .
I haven't talked to Jeff about this but it seems that he did just what you mentioned after the huge thread that was posted after the first attempt at changing / fixing the parting rule earlier this year.

It looks like he took a lot of comments and suggestions from that thread into consideration when he wrote the newest version.

By the way - last year I was the Chair of the Rules Committee so I'll take the blame / credit on that version. But remember, whatever the rule is that gets passed (if any) it won't go into effect until the 2014 season. That means that there still is time to tweak it, but it will never satisfy everyone.
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Unread 07-14-2013, 05:18 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by drbbq View Post
Sounds like real BBQ to me. Let's do it.
I'm in!!!
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Unread 07-14-2013, 06:33 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokedelic View Post
Really Jeff? Maybe you could just get it right and be done with it?

I'm not on the rules committee, but I'll give it a shot...

What's wrong with requiring you start out with a 5 lb. minimum piece of pork shoulder, butt, or picnic, and cook it whole, and then allow it to be returned to the cooker after it's parted?

Seriously....how hard is that?

Maybe third time is a charm?


Just to let you know.... This is how me and Todd decide to nominate people for the BOD. I'll work on a slogan . Mike in 2014!!!!
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Unread 07-15-2013, 09:34 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC View Post
Why do we need a weight limit on pork? Give me one good reason. If you can, maybe we better add weight to all four categories. If so, lets make brisket at about 14 pounds (no separating point and flat!); maybe chicken whole at 3 pounds (no pieces); Ribs? No St Louis spares - full slabs and at least five pounds only!
There is no current requirement that the 3 meats other than pork be cooked whole, therefore there is no need for a weight requirement.

By requiring pork to be cooked whole, AFTER trimming, you need a minimum weight requirement in order to define how much can be reasonably trimmed. Without the minimum weight requirement, you potentially remove the "BBQ" aspect from the category.

The Rules committee, and the Board as a whole, approved a 5 lb. weight minimum in February, so I'm curious why there was a change in direction only 5 months later?
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Unread 07-15-2013, 09:36 AM   #84
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Just to let you know.... This is how me and Todd decide to nominate people for the BOD. I'll work on a slogan . Mike in 2014!!!!
No thanks....I'm good.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:32 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Bigmista View Post

Don't worry about what the guy next door is doing. Do your best and have fun doing it.

Jeez! Quit whining! We get to BBQ! A lot! Enjoy it and quit looking for reasons to be pissed off.
I think this will be my new go-to response to every cockamamie thing I read/hear/see. Until I get screwed by a bunch of bad tables, that is.

OK that last sentence was a joke.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:44 PM   #86
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I think this will be my new go-to response to every cockamamie thing I read/hear/see. Until I get screwed by a bunch of bad tables, that is.

OK that last sentence was a joke.






or was it????????
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Unread 07-15-2013, 12:56 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokedelic View Post
There is no current requirement that the 3 meats other than pork be cooked whole, therefore there is no need for a weight requirement.

By requiring pork to be cooked whole, AFTER trimming, you need a minimum weight requirement in order to define how much can be reasonably trimmed. Without the minimum weight requirement, you potentially remove the "BBQ" aspect from the category.

The Rules committee, and the Board as a whole, approved a 5 lb. weight minimum in February, so I'm curious why there was a change in direction only 5 months later?
Same could be said about the other categories but it's not and no one is trying to quickly cook slices of brisket or individual rib bones.

Why the change five months later? Because people bitched then and didn't like it so we took suggestions and made changes to fine tune it. What I've learned is that it really doesn't matter what the rules say, that there will ALWAYS be people who are pissed off about it so we're better off just DOING THE BEST JOB WE CAN DO and let everything work out from there. And when my turn on the board is over, I'll let someone else try.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 01:22 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC View Post
Same could be said about the other categories but it's not and no one is trying to quickly cook slices of brisket or individual rib bones.

Why the change five months later? Because people bitched then and didn't like it so we took suggestions and made changes to fine tune it. What I've learned is that it really doesn't matter what the rules say, that there will ALWAYS be people who are pissed off about it so we're better off just DOING THE BEST JOB WE CAN DO and let everything work out from there. And when my turn on the board is over, I'll let someone else try.
How can the same be said for the other categories when pork is the only category that has the requirement that it be cooked whole?
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Unread 07-15-2013, 03:54 PM   #89
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A lot of history and AH's looking for loop holes went into the pork rule that currently exists. The simplest approach would be the defination and add must be cooked whole and untrimmed until an internal FDA serve safe temperature of 145 degree F. After it reaches this temperature you may do as you wish with the meat, to include parting, slicing, chopping, returning to the smoker, putting it in a cooler, etc. Once removed from the smoker the meat or parts of meat must be maintained at an FDA serve safe temperatue of 140 degrees or more prior to turn-in.
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Unread 07-16-2013, 02:56 PM   #90
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Quote:
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How can the same be said for the other categories when pork is the only category that has the requirement that it be cooked whole?
Precisely! And no one is cooking pre-sliced brisket, individual ribs (best from each slab) or what have you. So why do you think people are going to cook little pieces of butt and if they do, why does it matter? That's probably the best question right there - why does it matter? If it's a part of a butt, does it really matter how small they trim it?
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