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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


View Poll Results: Is the new revised pork rule good for BBQ?
Yes! 33 28.45%
No! 18 15.52%
Meh 19 16.38%
Pork is now a grilling contest 4 3.45%
Nothing changes for me 34 29.31%
Farker! 8 6.90%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 07-11-2013, 05:17 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailGateJoecom View Post
Here's the rule:

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder. After trimming, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those.

Now, the rule states it must be cooked "whole" but "after trimming." Now , with no weight limit, it could be argued that trimming the butt down to just the MM would be allowed. There is nothing stating how big the butt needs to be, or that the butt needs to be a whole butt. Heck, if I trim anything edible from a butt, or a brisket, or my spare ribs, am I not cooking a less-than-whole piece of meat? A competitor wanting to not play within the spirit of the rule but instead wanting to play semantics could just say he took the butt and trimmed off the part he didn't want to use, everything except the MM portion, and then cooked the remainder as a whole to 145, and then split the MM in half to get more bark.

So, now what is the definition of trimming? lol
By changing the cut of meat to accommodate your wishes you aren't trimming. You are butchering. Trimming is removing the untidy or inedible portions of the meat to prepare it for the cook not to create a piece of meat you want. If you were asked to cook a rack of lamb or pork crown roast and trimmed it to chops it would be wrong. If it comes off the pit as a piece if meat that doesn't resemble the one you are supposed to cook no semantics in the world will change that.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 05:19 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untraceable View Post
Got to watch that weight rule with the crap farmland has been putting out. Untrimmed 4lb 8.9oz garbage

Looks like a decent piece to eat though :)
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Unread 07-11-2013, 05:25 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg Father of Seoul View Post
The only part I don't understand is where they define what I can turn in.

WTF

More complicated, not less.

Its the last sentence of the rule. Something along the lines "can be turned in as pulled chopped sliced or and combination..."
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Unread 07-11-2013, 06:08 PM   #49
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I'm confused!
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Unread 07-11-2013, 08:28 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
By allowing any technique you dumb down the skills needed and make it "easybake" BBQ.
Like the other 3 categories?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
This rule seems to be very similar to the BBQ-Brethren rule set which has served its event flawlessly in the past few years. Many cooks like the extra clarity and the fact that the rule is still a guideline rather than a directive.
So if its a guideline then what are the repercussions for not following it? Isn't a guideline nothing more than a suggestion?

How do you enforce the 145* temperature? If a rep doesn't come and temp each one before they are removed aren't we once again just relying on the integrity of the individual? In this instance the KCBS BoD decided that imposing a minimum temperature would be unenforceable so they left it out.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 09:01 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
Its the last sentence of the rule. Something along the lines "can be turned in as pulled chopped sliced or and combination..."
The part I do not understand is why they think this is necessary. They do not pull a Bubba Gump and list all the ways you can turn in chicken.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 09:26 PM   #52
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I liked the old rule better. I would have preferred they left the pork rule alone.


And change the brisket rule. Muaaahaahaaa ...meh
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Unread 07-11-2013, 09:29 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake View Post
How do you enforce the 145* temperature? If a rep doesn't come and temp each one before they are removed aren't we once again just relying on the integrity of the individual?
Sean is right - we all know reps are not walked around and looking in people's pits. There is no guarantee that what someone shows during meat inspection is even going in the pit.

The rules will never overcome that unless we want an army of auditors roaming the cook sites.

To me, the purpose of the rules is to define an even playing field by which we all compete. It's up to the integrity of the teams to follow those.

The new rule more clearly defines what is intended. The intention is clear - you have to cook a whole cut of meat, but you can glaze, reheat, or cook bits of the whole cut to a different temp after cooking the basic piece whole.

If people want to wiggle out of that based on semantics, they will. They could cheat in a whole host of ways because cooks aren't watched that closely.

The other question is: how much of an advantage is it? If you can't win cooking a pork butt, is just cooking a money muscle really going to help you? I doubt it.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 09:51 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake View Post
Like the other 3 categories?
No not at all. Each category is its own animal. It would be comparing apples and oranges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake View Post
So if its a guideline then what are the repercussions for not following it? Isn't a guideline nothing more than a suggestion?

How do you enforce the 145* temperature? If a rep doesn't come and temp each one before they are removed aren't we once again just relying on the integrity of the individual? In this instance the KCBS BoD decided that imposing a minimum temperature would be unenforceable so they left it out.
Its all a guideline. The 145 degree was a food safety number to give those who would question the definition of cooked in the rule.
A guideline can also be a standard operating procedure upon which each team is asked to follow. Without constant oversight the rule set is not there to be enforced but rather followed. Once the competitor loses their integrity the rule set falls apart.
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To part or not to part: that is the question. Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to part and suffer the slings and arrows of ostentatious brothers or to not part when faced with a sea of dissent, and by compromise end it? To part: to succeed. Forever more: and by succeed to say we win.

Yeah it looks good...but how does it smell?

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Unread 07-11-2013, 10:02 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
No not at all. Each category is its own animal. It would be comparing apples and oranges.



Its all a guideline. The 145 degree was a food safety number to give those who would question the definition of cooked in the rule.
A guideline can also be a standard operating procedure upon which each team is asked to follow. Without constant oversight the rule set is not there to be enforced but rather followed. Once the competitor loses their integrity the rule set falls apart.

Exactly, the 145 was put in specifically to reinforce the safe serving temperature for those who say 'what does cooked mean'.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 10:11 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
No not at all. Each category is its own animal. It would be comparing apples and oranges.

Its all a guideline. The 145 degree was a food safety number to give those who would question the definition of cooked in the rule.
A guideline can also be a standard operating procedure upon which each team is asked to follow. Without constant oversight the rule set is not there to be enforced but rather followed. Once the competitor loses their integrity the rule set falls apart.
You really have me confused now. We're going to have to hash this out over a few Skippy Shakes

Being able to part your pork is dumbing down contest to what was it "easy bake BBQ" but cooking store bought pieces of chicken somehow demonstrates a higher level of skill?

I thought you used the Brethren rule as an example of something that gave the cook a course of action that did not rely on their integrity? I still think its going to rely on a competitors integrity and willingness to abide by the rules. There aren't going to be reps verifying your pork is 145* @ the BoTB anymore than there are going to be KCBS reps making sure you don't return separated pork to your cooker at the Royal. Both are almost unenforceable rules that rely on cooks staying within the guidelines.

Like Chris said, cheaters are going to cheat. Myself, like the majority of folks here, don't feel the need to.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 10:31 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake View Post
You really have me confused now. We're going to have to hash this out over a few Skippy Shakes

Being able to part your pork is dumbing down contest to what was it "easy bake BBQ" but cooking store bought pieces of chicken somehow demonstrates a higher level of skill?

I thought you used the Brethren rule as an example of something that gave the cook a course of action that did not rely on their integrity? I still think its going to rely on a competitors integrity and willingness to abide by the rules. There aren't going to be reps verifying your pork is 145* @ the BoTB anymore than there are going to be KCBS reps making sure you don't return separated pork to your cooker at the Royal. Both are almost unenforceable rules that rely on cooks staying within the guidelines.

Like Chris said, cheaters are going to cheat. Myself, like the majority of folks here, don't feel the need to.

Yeah we are on the same page. Chicken has been shaped by the competitor unfortunately. Thigh nuggets in unnatural shapes that have taught the average judge to have an expectation. I would like to see a light and dark requirement to exhibit more skill. Although when you think about it the use of the chicken thigh is no different then the beef brisket or pork shoulder. Each is a specific portion of a whole animal. Oh and I can't wait for a shake or 4
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To part or not to part: that is the question. Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to part and suffer the slings and arrows of ostentatious brothers or to not part when faced with a sea of dissent, and by compromise end it? To part: to succeed. Forever more: and by succeed to say we win.

Yeah it looks good...but how does it smell?

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Unread 07-11-2013, 10:39 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg Father of Seoul View Post
The part I do not understand is why they think this is necessary. They do not pull a Bubba Gump and list all the ways you can turn in chicken.
I think the reason for that is the idea of 6 portions. Most everyone slices brisket and chicken parts make 6 easy just like ribs. Slices would be the first idea ofr pork when considering that. As well it may have originally been a tip of the hat to the different regional preps.
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To part or not to part: that is the question. Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to part and suffer the slings and arrows of ostentatious brothers or to not part when faced with a sea of dissent, and by compromise end it? To part: to succeed. Forever more: and by succeed to say we win.

Yeah it looks good...but how does it smell?

Member of The Big Guns BBQ Team Semper Fumantem

"you're eating tree RAT, tree RAT, you're eating RAT!" -- landarc
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Unread 07-12-2013, 12:41 AM   #59
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Doesn't effect us...
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Unread 07-12-2013, 01:10 AM   #60
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I wish they'd just change the name of the category to "pulled pork". POOF!!! All confusion gone instantly!

Can I make the precious little medallions? Yes. Do I find it to be silly? Yes, but apparently there are many who get a warm/fuzzy from sliced. To each their own.
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