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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 06-03-2013, 09:21 PM   #1
dobdabomb
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Default About to order a smoker: Rebel or Stumps??

Guys need some major help, especially with the Rebel side. I currently have 2 large green eggs and a new primo oval Xl which I am now selling to help with buying the new smoker. I was set on the stump smoker as I know the dealer here in the area but came upon the Rebel after seeing Moe Cason using the hell out of it. I have never seen one in person or on the circuit around here or anywhere to be exact. I hear they are pretty popular in the Midwest.

I know there are some topics on here but they are really old and no one has posted in while. If anyone can post pictures of theirs and stories I'd appreciate it. I am pretty set on these two narrowed down too but all comments are welcome. If there is any negative on them I need to know about it, I talked to Brian of Rebel and he gave me his info but its good to hear from the actual cookers. Worries me they have only been around for 2 years and trial and error is still a factor iyam just like anything.

Thanks guys! Especially to help a newbie on here!
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Unread 06-03-2013, 09:28 PM   #2
NickyG
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All ready going to throw a monkey wrench in. Why not a Backwoods?
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Unread 06-03-2013, 10:06 PM   #3
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I have a 23 Rebel and love it. The best thing is to set the temp., if you are using a guru or something of that nature and walk away. Easy on fuel also. I really can't tell you any bad feature of it. Excellent workmanship on the cooker also.
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Unread 06-03-2013, 10:13 PM   #4
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Stumps don't make no junk!
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Unread 06-04-2013, 06:15 AM   #5
BRBBQ
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Stumps gets my vote, with a controller set it and forget it
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Unread 06-04-2013, 06:18 AM   #6
Smokin'Butts
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I gotta go with NickyG.....Get a backwoods!
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Unread 06-04-2013, 07:19 AM   #7
blues brother
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No help with the Rebel. I have a baby and a stretch. Used to have a gf 223. I have cooked on a Stumps classic, backyarder and hog cooker. They are all quality pits. My next pit will prolly be a stumpster.
Long story short, I would be hard pressed to buy any other pit.
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Unread 06-04-2013, 12:34 PM   #8
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Klose
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Unread 06-04-2013, 01:39 PM   #9
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D.W. kountry cookers, superior, assassin, rebel, stumps, i am sure the list goes on.

all same idea, get the one you can get the best deal on. People love stumps i am sure they are close to the shop, and never had problems with their cookers, and dont mind waiting 3-6 months to get it.

Would i buy another perhaps, but i know for sure i would not count on his delivery date, and id pick it up or not accept it damaged.

Seriously, find your size, options and get the cheapest, i really cant see any issues with any of them. they will all bridge from time to time, and free you up to drink wile cooking....
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Unread 06-05-2013, 08:42 AM   #10
dobdabomb
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The main reasons I have not gone the backwoods route, I have heard from many on the competition route at least around here have a rust issue with them. The second reason is I just don't like the idea of changing that fire box, the times ive seen it in person it just looks like a pain especially if having to fill it up or adding to it during a much longer cook than the 8-10 hours. I prefer the gravity idea and the main reason I like that engineering part of smokers. I am more than willing to entertain more comments on them, but they are running 3-4th here at the moment.

smokealcholic: can you tell me more about your rebel, any issues with the paint or it rusting easy?

My biggest concern for any of these is will all of them be able to last at least 10-15 years without serious rusting, replacing metal...etc? The main reson why I love the ceramics and have been using them in competition. They are going to last forever, much longer than metal. Are all the same thickness of metal, stainless grates?

For pricing of my budget, I was set on either a baby xl or rebel 23/28 but dependent on future cooking and competition aspirations I am leaning to a stretch or the 32 rebel.

Thanks everyone, I havent made this big of a purchase yet and plan on ordering in the next month so just trying to eleviate the nerves by learning more from the other bbq guys I know will help and love to so.
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Unread 06-05-2013, 08:51 AM   #11
dobdabomb
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The main reasons I have not gone the backwoods route, I have heard from many on the competition route at least around here have a rust issue with them. The second reason is I just don't like the idea of changing that fire box, the times ive seen it in person it just looks like a pain especially if having to fill it up or adding to it during a much longer cook than the 8-10 hours. I prefer the gravity idea and the main reason I like that engineering part of smokers. I am more than willing to entertain more comments on them, but they are running 3-4th here at the moment.

smokealcholic: can you tell me more about your rebel, any issues with the paint or it rusting easy?

My biggest concern for any of these is will all of them be able to last at least 10-15 years without serious rusting, replacing metal...etc? The main reson why I love the ceramics and have been using them in competition. They are going to last forever, much longer than metal. Are all the same thickness of metal, stainless grates?

For pricing of my budget, I was set on either a baby xl or rebel 23/28 but dependent on future cooking and competition aspirations I am leaning to a stretch or the 32 rebel.

Thanks everyone, I havent made this big of a purchase yet and plan on ordering in the next month so just trying to eleviate the nerves by learning more from the other bbq guys I know will help and love to so.
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Unread 06-05-2013, 04:36 PM   #12
Big Country BBQ
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I know of at least 30 teams using backwoods and 30 teams that use stumps and about 15 that use FEC100s . Honestly me being a professional welder I love how the backwoods cooks cause of it reverse flow vertical smoker along with the water pan BUT you can cook as near as long as you could like you can with a stumps but don't be fooled there has been several teams that have had to replace the bottoms of their cookers for the bottom rusting out. But you can not go wrong with any of those cookers
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Unread 06-05-2013, 07:14 PM   #13
dobdabomb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Country BBQ View Post
I know of at least 30 teams using backwoods and 30 teams that use stumps and about 15 that use FEC100s . Honestly me being a professional welder I love how the backwoods cooks cause of it reverse flow vertical smoker along with the water pan BUT you can cook as near as long as you could like you can with a stumps but don't be fooled there has been several teams that have had to replace the bottoms of their cookers for the bottom rusting out. But you can not go wrong with any of those cookers
The bottoms of which ones? What companies?

We should get together since your from Huntsville, I live downtown in blossom wood. Would love to meet up, never heard of your cooking team name, you do whistlestop at all? I just won first place chicken this year.
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Unread 06-05-2013, 10:01 PM   #14
dobdabomb
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Anyone else got some info? Much appreciated guys, really. This is going to be a tough decision for me, id love the rebel but not getting enough info to sway me yet.
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Unread 06-06-2013, 02:31 PM   #15
Zenbbqmaster
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Default In answer to PM about Pitmaker BBQ Vault.

Hi Dobdabomb,

I tried a return PM on this, but your message box was full. I hope you don't mind me posting my reply in here. Looking over your original PM, i am sure there is no information of a sensitive nature, so I am re-posting it here along with the reply. Hopefully, others find it informative as well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobdabomb
I am down to a Stump which was my only one of a couple weeks ago, a Rebel/Assassin or your Vault. I saw you comment on a post 3 years ago explaining the building process. Can you please give me more information that isnt on your website, I am most concerned with a cooker that will last me 20 years without an issue with rust and replacing(re-welding) things. I have two large big green eggs and a primo xl so I am use to the quality and low maintence of a ceramic cooker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobdabomb

Thanks for anything you can provide, looking at ordering here in the next couple weeks if I can. I also need a freight quote for shipping to Huntsville, AL zip 35xxx. Do you guys take paypal and/or amex?

Robert
Team Smokin' Hot Racks.
Hello Robert,

Thanks for reaching out with the inquiry on our products. This requires some analysis of our competitors, but I am game. On the build process of the BBQ Vault:

First of all, in comparison to the Rebel/Assasin and Stumps smokers, we use thicker material. I believe they are using 14 GA. (roughly 1/16") whereas we use 11 GA. (1/8") thickness. This inherently would make it more resistant to corrosion. Then lets talk of the material itself. On our BBQ Vaults and Safes, we use 304 Solid stainless on every area of high wear and tear. This from the doors (inside and out), slam-latch handles (solid cast stainless), smoke stacks, air damper plates, bottom cooking chamber door frame, drip shield shelf (in between firebox and cooking chamber doors), and the top of the inside firebox, which is also the reinforced water pan/drip pan for the cooking chamber. Even the door hinges and hinge sleeves (which are painted), are solid stainless steel because they are metal rubbing on metal. If the paint chips off these sleeves, they will not rust. The drip shield shelf and the bottom door frame are especially important areas as these get the drippings from meat that come down when you slide out the racks. These drippings typically are very corrosive due to salt and spice content. The stainless area here on our pits is impervious to that.

Secondly, it seems that they are using some riveted construction. Primarily on the "roof" of the pit, which may or may not be rivets or screws, and in attaching the smoke stack. Also, rivets look to be on the hinges of the door, and internally on the door panel. It also appears that the door panels on are in two parts on the Rebel/Assassin smokers. Any area with seams is more open to corrosion, as this is a problem area for covering with paint/powder coat. Also, paint is usually not on the inside of the sheet underneath the seams, so water/moisture seeps into these areas through osmosis and surface adhesion and causes problems.

It looks like this would especially be a problem area where there is a lip attaching the smokestack to the top of the Rebel/Assassin smoker, as this is a flat area that will tend to catch and hold water. Our smokestacks are solid stainless steel and welded integral to the body. We went to an all stainless smoke stack design to prevent corrosion from the condensation that tend to drip down all smoker smokestacks. This condensation typically has salt/spices and liquid smoke all of which are corrosive to paint/powdercoat finishes.

Rivets themselves are also an entry point into the sheet steel. They are typically done after the paint process. Water/moister will go around the lips of the rivet, or through the hollow center. Our entire smoker body is rivet-less. All seams are welded solid to prevent this type of corrosion. There is only area rivets are used and they are solid stainless and extremely strong used to attach the slam-latches of the doors. Inside of our double doors, we use solid stainless steel sheet metal screws to attach the solid stainless inner door panels. We like to make these door panels removable, so that the door gasket can easily be replaced in a few years. I don’t believe their rivets are stainless, or even the "piano" style hinges on their doors are stainless.

On our finish, we take every piece of "P&O" carbon steel on our pits and take it down to a mirror bright pure steel, before doing a thinner wash and coating in zinc epoxy primer. This primer is extremely strong and durable and the zinc content bonds chemically with the carbon to almost form a "surface stainless" to inhibit corrosion. From there a urethane auto enamel paint is applied. We would put this finish against commercial powdercoat or paint process on our competitors pits for durability and longevity.

I think those are the primary construction point interest. Hopefully, you can see the thought and care that went into making the BBQ Vault and Safe pits that can truly last through two decades of service with less maintenance then most if not, per your specification. Also, there is also the solid stainless option, if you want it to last longer! https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=2adae287ae

There are a couple more key points to highlight for your decision:
1.) We are now offering the option of adding dual Ball Valve air intakes into our Vaults or Safes for $240, to compare apples to apples in the instance of precision air intake control.
2.) Cost. The Stumps Stretch which is comparable in capacity to the Vault, size runs $4400, with Slam Latches at an option of $150. The Rebel 32 runs $3500 with no apparent options available on the website. The BBQ Vault is $3445 in any color you want off of our website. Given the more expensive materials (stainless and thickness), and extra labor involved with our pits, hopefully, you can see the extra value that is there .

Shipping fully crated with a residential lift gate drop to your driveway at zip code 35xxx for the BBQ Vault is $575. There is a little extra cost there for the full wood crating and custom pallet, but trust me, it is worth it. I hear some of our competitors have had problems with dinged and scratched smokers arriving to customers because of cut-rate packaging. We do take both Paypal and Amex as forms of payment.

Thanks again, Robert for your interest. Hopefully, this answers some of your questions and then some. We are working at putting more informative information like the above out there on our website and elsewhere. Please feel free to share this information above in this forum or with anyone interested.

Sincerely,

George Shore
Pitmaker
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Last edited by Zenbbqmaster; 06-06-2013 at 04:18 PM..
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