עָטִין
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ

Notices

Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 04-11-2013, 09:07 AM   #1
Rooter-Tooter BBQ
Got Wood.
 
Join Date: 09-21-11
Location: Henderson,KY
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Comment Cards-Mandatory?

In lou of the previous thread on Judges Scoring, I was wanting to see if the powers at be and any comments from the Brethren would agree or disagree.

Personally I feel that an excellent way of us competitive cooks getting better is having an outside source, such as the judges, comment on our food, hence comment cards. I know that the Reps tell the judges to do comment cards, but in my 3 yrs of competing I have only had 1 comment card, which was well deserved.

So here is the question, if a team receives a score of 6 or lower should a comment card be mandatory?

We put alot of money, time, and effort into our cooks, so the least we could get is a comment card on why the score was 6 or lower. Agree?

This is post is not in a negative or mean way just a suggestion to help us get better.
Rooter-Tooter BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-11-2013, 09:10 AM   #2
nucornhusker
Babbling Farker

 
nucornhusker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-29-11
Location: Lincoln, NE
Downloads: 4
Uploads: 0
Default

That would be great, but how many judges would score something up just so they don't have to fill out a comment card?
__________________
Yoder Smokers YS1500, Kamado Joe BigJoe & Joe Jr., Weber: 18.5" OT(L), SJG(AU) & (DI) - Past Cookers: Yoder Smokers YS640 Comp Cart, Kamado Joe Classic, OKJoe's Longhorn, UDS, Weber: Performer(AA), Genesis Gold C(DH), 22.5" OTG(DI), 22.5" OT(L)

IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller
nucornhusker is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 04-11-2013, 09:21 AM   #3
Rooter-Tooter BBQ
Got Wood.
 
Join Date: 09-21-11
Location: Henderson,KY
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

True, I guess its a win win
Rooter-Tooter BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-11-2013, 10:15 AM   #4
rweller
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 07-01-08
Location: Beardstown, Illinois
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Anything lower than a 6 and I will fill out a comment card, not for a 6 though.
__________________
Ralph Weller, BWS Fatboy, 2 WSM Bullet, KCBS REP, KCBS Master CBJ, Certified Table Captain
rweller is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 04-11-2013, 10:52 AM   #5
Vince RnQ
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Vince RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-09-07
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooter-Tooter BBQ View Post
So here is the question, if a team receives a score of 6 or lower should a comment card be mandatory?
This has been proposed, just as you wrote it, and the reply back was, "Well, if we do that then judges will never give scores lower than 6 anymore."

The reality is that this will never happen because KCBS does not have the desire or the will to make it happen. The current mindset seems to be to dumb down the process (i.e. revised pork rule).
Vince RnQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-11-2013, 10:52 AM   #6
EMTTLC
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 05-14-11
Location: Seymour, TN
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I wouldn't have a problem mandating that judges fill out a comment card on each entry regardless of score. They have thirty minutes between turn-ins, thats five minutes for each piece they sampled. It wouldn't take 30 seconds each. I think a judge should be able to articulate what they liked or didn't like about an entry. I consistantly do more comment cards than everyone at my table combined. Feedback makes for better cooks.
EMTTLC is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-11-2013, 11:28 AM   #7
Uncle Buds BBQ
is one Smokin' Farker

 
Uncle Buds BBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-04-09
Location: Marietta, GA
Downloads: 1
Uploads: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTTLC View Post
I consistantly do more comment cards than everyone at my table combined.
That's 'cause you're a COOK!
__________________
Dave
Pitmaster, KCBS Master CBJ, CTC, and contest rep.
Uncle Buds BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-11-2013, 11:40 AM   #8
Slamdunkpro
Babbling Farker

 
Slamdunkpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-27-07
Location: Northern VA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTTLC View Post
I wouldn't have a problem mandating that judges fill out a comment card on each entry regardless of score. They have thirty minutes between turn-ins, thats five minutes for each piece they sampled. It wouldn't take 30 seconds each. I think a judge should be able to articulate what they liked or didn't like about an entry. I consistantly do more comment cards than everyone at my table combined. Feedback makes for better cooks.
They really don't have 30 minutes - I've seen tables get food as late as 15 minutes into the judging period.
<broken record mode>
It's not a comment card issue - it's a lack of quantifiable standards issue
</broken record mode>
__________________
Aporkalypse Now Competition BBQ team
Thanks to our sponsors: Wusthof Trident USA & Creekstone Farms
Spicewine Tandem - "The Beast"

Brinkman modified upright, Weber Kettle(s); Meadow Creek Pr-24, Super Stealth Mode black & Night Vision Red Thermopens
-----------------
MABA - (Mid Atlantic BBQ Association) President
KCBS Certified Judge - #23289
Slamdunkpro is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 04-11-2013, 12:20 PM   #9
bbq.tom
is One Chatty Farker

 
bbq.tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-23-10
Location: Hillsborough, NC (UNC TarHeel country!)
Downloads: 1
Uploads: 0
Default

Personally, I always give a comment card on anything 6 or below, and even sometimes on a 7 if I have time.

Judges DO NOT get 5 minutes per sample as indicated above!!! It is common to see a table not get their boxes until the first table is almost done scoring.
Usually judges get about 1-2 minutes to: pick up a sample, pull all the parsley off so it doesn't effect the taste, bite, think/chew, bite again on a different side of the thigh/rib or a different type of meat in the same box, wipe off their hands and mouths, write down their scores, eat a small piece of cracker and take a drink of water before starting over again with the next sample. Believe it or not (cooks), judges don't have 5 minutes for each sample!
I FIRMLY believe that judging could be improved immensely by having the judges write down on the score cards WHY they gave each sample the score they did. This would be for EACH and EVERY entry! Of course, this means that turn-in times would need to be extended to at least 45 minutes between instead of 30. But would be actual useful information for the teams and would make the judges think more about the score and why they gave what they did.
__________________
Tom
CMJ - KCBS
CBJ - MBN, NCBS, NCPC, NCBBQA
OBJ - BBQCritic.com
CTC - KCBS
Pitmaster and chef - "4 Lil' Pigs" Competition BBQ Team
Author of "A 'Q' Review"
Lang Hybrid Smoker, BDS, Holland "Epic"
bbq.tom is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 04-11-2013, 12:52 PM   #10
Cayman1
Take a breath!
 
Join Date: 07-20-12
Location: Springfield, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Feed back would be great, even for good scores, but I would be satisfied with cards for 7's or less. We don't get many 7's but they will kill a chance at a win and it would be nice to know why a judge felt it deserved a 7. Maybe it was just a bad piece of meat that judge got, but I guarantee, a team will fret over a 7 for a long time trying to figure out what went wrong and maybe nothing did.

Our last comp, we had, if I recall exactly, ten 9's and the rest 8's on chicken, except for one judge that gave all 7's. Knowing why that judge felt it deserved only 7's would help to know if we need to change anything or what exactly the issue was.
__________________
Smooth Smoke BBQ Team, KCBS CBJ, 2-WSM, Cajun Bandit Conversion, wsm 2880, Smokey Joe Mini wsm, Old Country offset, several kettles.
Cayman1 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-11-2013, 12:58 PM   #11
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I feel the mandatory-card trigger should be a score of 5. If 6 is "average", then if you have determined an entry is below average you'd better be able to come up with two to five words as to WHY it's below average.

Make it even easier -- put checkboxes for common issues like "too salty", "dry", "tough", whatever.

The time issue is a claim without merit. My son is a CBJ and has served at a contest where he judged, was table captain AND had time to generate relevant comment cards when merited. If boxes aren't getting back to the tables in a timely manner, I'd be looking squarely at the reps overseeing the sorting/renumbering of boxes.
__________________
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

180 Brisket -- Sam's Club, Salt Lake City, UT 2014
180 Chicken -- Sam's Club National, Bentonville, AR 2013


Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Thanks from: --->
Unread 04-11-2013, 01:28 PM   #12
Divemaster
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Divemaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTTLC View Post
I consistently do more comment cards than everyone at my table combined. Feedback makes for better cooks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Buds BBQ View Post
That's 'cause you're a COOK!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cayman1 View Post
Feed back would be great, even for good scores...
Ramona and I did Vegas last year and had the rep complain that we were doing too many cards. I did them for just about every entry. some were statements like 'under done' others were 'great job'.
__________________
Jeff
CBJ# 23376
Stockcar BBQ
Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life!
If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish!

Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe.
Divemaster is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 04-11-2013, 01:42 PM   #13
olewarthog
Full Fledged Farker
 
olewarthog's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-07-10
Location: Hazlehurst, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

the GBA scoring system goes from 7 to 10 in each of the 3 criteria. A comment card is mandatory for any 7 or 8. Yes, there will be some judges who will not score low to avoid filling out comment cards. IMHO, the value of the comment cards outweighs the few judges who score up just to avoid writing a card. Judges are also encouraged to give "good" comment cards also. I do the scoring at a lot of GBA contests. There will normally be between 5-6 comment card for each of the three meats.
__________________
Jim Sewell -- GBA Vice President, Master Judge, Contest Rep & GBA Webmaster
olewarthog is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-11-2013, 02:22 PM   #14
cpw
is One Chatty Farker

 
cpw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-28-11
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Downloads: 4
Uploads: 0
Default

How much time can it possibly take to write "Your chicken was too salty"? I don't see that as a valid argument against comment cards.
__________________
________________
Superior SS1
Lang 84 Deluxe
UDS
Savannah, GA
Yes, Dear BBQ on Facebook
Proudly sponsored by Dixie Meat Rub
cpw is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-11-2013, 02:23 PM   #15
Outnumbered
is Blowin Smoke!

 
Outnumbered's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-18-11
Location: Smithville, Missouri, United States
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Why not require comment cards period? Any judge should be able to justify a 9 or a 6 or a 3.
__________________
Greg Vincent

When I die, my goal is to have a visible smoke ring when the coroner cuts me open for the autopsy.
Outnumbered is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.