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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 02-25-2013, 05:11 PM   #46
The_Kapn
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I "don't have a Dog in this fight" since we retired from competing.

But, the problem seems to be the wording of the rule.

I did rule making for many years with a lot higher stakes.

The process should be:
What is the desired outcome?
How do we write that in "plain English" to achieve that outcome?

Seems to me that if KCBS (or whatever "regulator") would follow that simple process, all of the confusion would go away.

You will never stop the bitchers, complainers, second guessers, and whiners on the Internet, but the intent and the application of the rule should be clear if it is properly written.
And this one is clearly not.

Good Luck Y'All

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Unread 02-25-2013, 05:19 PM   #47
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Default Re: My take on the Pork Rule

So when can we expect some indisputable clarification in writing? 2015?
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Unread 02-25-2013, 05:24 PM   #48
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Actually, I see what Dave did here, and I can appreciate that this is a first step. The old rule was controversial for some, although I think it was fine. But, by getting the vote to make this current rule, he has opened up discussion across all of the boards and venues, the feedback is coming in pretty clear and now, the board can address the issue without being tied to the idea of the old rule somehow being sacred.

I think this would be a good thing to do with all of the meats, let's start with chicken, and see if there is any traction for making some changes there as well.

I for one, though I am at best, a marginal participant, think Dave is to be thanked for finally getting the ball rolling.
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Unread 02-25-2013, 05:38 PM   #49
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Whatever the rule is, pork will still continue being a disaster for me.
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Unread 02-25-2013, 06:38 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Freddy View Post
Whatever the rule is, pork will still continue being a disaster for me.
It's those small shoulders on the pig in your avatar. Try one like this



Taking a serious look at breeding these monsters. (blood stock only)
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Unread 02-25-2013, 06:58 PM   #51
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I was lucky enough to sit down with Dave (Compton) on Saturday night and pick his brain about the new rule.

His primary response was "Don't go making MM and tubes your inspection meat yet. It ain't 2014, and the rule isn't complete."
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Unread 02-25-2013, 10:05 PM   #52
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I don't really care about the rule change. Part of me says the rule change makes sense to make pork rules more like the other categories, but the other part of me says they put in the rule for a reason. I don't expect the rule change as written to change many outcomes. Those who currently score well in pork, will likely continue to do so.

I just don't understand those that insist:
1) The need to rewarm it to keep it safe. Like others have said, I can put ours in the cooler or cambro and take it out 5 hours later and it's steaming hot and requires cotton gloves to work.

2) Stating the need to part to complete their cooking method. Those who do either choose not to adhere to the current rules or are turning in what they consider subpar pork (yet people win/score well with what would be considered subpar pork all the time).

3) The need to part in order to set sauce? Why not put the entire pork butt back in the smoker if you to do so? I can think of a way to help the entire butt from drying out where that wouldn't be a concern.
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Unread 02-25-2013, 10:46 PM   #53
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Default Re: My take on the Pork Rule

Ya know....I always wondered why IBCA doesn't include pork. Maybe this long on going debate is why :D
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Unread 02-26-2013, 06:44 AM   #54
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I haven't competed in quite a while and hope to get back in to it later this year. That said, I find the new wording sad and another step away from BBQ (traditional BBQ if you will) embracing grilling, etc. and catering to people who haven't a clue as to what BBQ IS and isn't.

If they wanted to help food safety, then word it as such, but without the no parting rule it sure seems like this is now allowed (and endorsed).

Call me crazy (you wont be the first), but I've been rather disappointed as a judge lately with all the MM's coming across the table and chopped pork and pork strings sauced into oblivion. Mind you they make for beautiful presentations, but the taste is almost completely of sauce and along the way we've begun to lose what constitutes BBQ itself.
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Unread 02-26-2013, 07:44 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Bobby View Post
I just don't understand those that insist:

3) The need to part in order to set sauce? Why not put the entire pork butt back in the smoker if you to do so? I can think of a way to help the entire butt from drying out where that wouldn't be a concern.
Have you never had a fully-cooked pork butt fall apart on you when you try to move it?

Personally, I think the best idea I saw was the idea someone posted that you be allowed to return parted pork to the cooker starting at 12:30. That's more than adequate time to set sauce, reheat, etc., but it is not enough to individual pieces. Hard to enforce? Yes, but not any harder than the current rule.
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Unread 02-26-2013, 09:42 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Dog BBQ View Post
Have you never had a fully-cooked pork butt fall apart on you when you try to move it?
No, not with the method I use. I cook pork to 200.

That said, our pork has pretty much sucked the past 2 years after 3 years of doing very well ... so I clearly haven't adjusted the right direction.
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Unread 02-26-2013, 09:58 AM   #57
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I guess I still don't get it. It's possible to cook 2 butts and score well. I'm not God's gift but our pork was 13th TOY in 2011, and top 50 in 2012, oh, and 1st at the AR Invite in 2012. I didn't cheat, I didnt slop it up with sauce, and I had MM + Pulled in the box. I don't plan to change a thing unless I stumble upon something else that really WOWS me.
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Unread 02-26-2013, 10:06 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake Dogs View Post
I haven't competed in quite a while and hope to get back in to it later this year. That said, I find the new wording sad and another step away from BBQ (traditional BBQ if you will) embracing grilling, etc. and catering to people who haven't a clue as to what BBQ IS and isn't.

If they wanted to help food safety, then word it as such, but without the no parting rule it sure seems like this is now allowed (and endorsed).

Call me crazy (you wont be the first), but I've been rather disappointed as a judge lately with all the MM's coming across the table and chopped pork and pork strings sauced into oblivion. Mind you they make for beautiful presentations, but the taste is almost completely of sauce and along the way we've begun to lose what constitutes BBQ itself.
I like my pork to taste like, well...pork. This is just my personal preference, but I'd like the option to always taste the pork without sauce. If you do have a sauce, that REALLY compliments the meat and not mask it, serve it on the side.
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Unread 02-26-2013, 10:11 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deguerre View Post
I like my pork to taste like, well...pork. This is just my personal preference, but I'd like the option to always taste the pork without sauce. If you do have a sauce, that REALLY compliments the meat and not mask it, serve it on the side.
How would you do that, without a DQ?
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Unread 02-26-2013, 10:12 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
I won't tell you what I think, but I will tell you why I think some people interpret the new rule to mean Pork can be legally separated after inspection.

The 2013 rule contains language that requires pork to be cooked whole, as well as prevents meat from being returned to the cooker once it's parted. Both items were removed from the 2014 rule.

Regardless of intent, I don't think it's unreasonable for a cook to interpret that parting is now legal since language that prohibited the practice has been removed.
VIDEO BELOW IN NEXT POST

Thanks Jorge. Allow me time for a serious response in this forum. Allow me to be constructive; but from a catering perspective.

The "Shake" is something I have been doing to do two reasons... one, increase the bark ratio, and two, allow for a large clientele to have a little miniature pork butt of their own (with a nice bark) usually served with veggies as the entree... and typically not as a sandwich. Plus they cook wicked fast. The Shake maybe a plus for someone who has nothing to lose.

Yes, I know its not a pork butt but a part of one. But these really come out GREAT.

So the way I read the rule as well, this dish sans the onions would work. Or not. No, not saying it will win, but ponder on the possibilities of choosing the perfect two out of 8 segments a typical but can offer?

Comments?

Last edited by Pitmaster T; 02-26-2013 at 02:22 PM..
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