The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Q-talk

Notices

Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 02-08-2013, 07:07 PM   #46
Big Dan
On the road to being a farker

 
Big Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-02-12
Location: Coastal Bend Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hominamad View Post
Ok so it seems like one of the main skill is knowing where the small window is where it's the right time to pull it. I also know you're not supposed to open and check often because you lose heat, etc. So, at one temperature do you start checking it, and how often should you check? Not too often I imagine or you lose a lot of heat each time.

Also, has anyone here used a pellet smoker to cook a brisket? Or a gas? I know the restaurants in NYC where I've had those amazing brisket experiences use gas as a heat source - so I know it's possible to make good brisket this way.
As a rule of thumb,use a formula of 1.5 hours per pound to put you in the ballpark for a cook. This is not to be followed "in stone" but it will give you an idea of how long to expect your cook to take. For example, an 11 pound brisket, x 1.5= 16.5 hours. BUT, it may finish sooner than that. This was my estimated time for my brisket last Saturday, but it finished in 12.5 hours, so you see how it is not to be followed religiously. The only way you are going to cook good, Knock your socks off, Aaron Franklin, 25 dollars a pound brisket is by cooking a brisket every weekend. The weather changes every day, and so do your variables for smoking a brisket, and the only way you will learn is by doing it. And doing it on a smoker you have gotten very familiar with.You need to know every little nuance of your smoker, inside and out. There is no other way. Practice, practice,practice, there is no "Pill" you can take.
Here in Texas, we only smoke with Wood. Real wood fires give a brisket (and BBQ) the best taste, in my opinion. As far as meat goes, I only smoke Prime briskets from two different butcher shops. Prime is only $3.19 a pound and has nice marbling throughout.
Good luck in your quest. You will get there.
Big Dan is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 02-08-2013, 07:46 PM   #47
Bludawg
Quintessential Chatty Farker
 
Bludawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-09
Location: Jonesboro,Tx
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

1.5 hrs a lb is a good guesstimate if your cooking between 225-250 I cook at 300 and it drops dramatically to 50 min for unwrapped to 40 min wrapped( Butcher Paper)but in no way is that set in stone. Variance in meat and ambient temp will affect these guesstimate times to a degree.
__________________
I never met a Cow that I didn't like with a little Salt & Pepper! Certified PORK-A-HOLIC
Bludawg is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-02-2013, 06:11 PM   #48
danieldelaney
Found some matches.
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Hi All - I was just poking around and saw this thread, and saw my brisket... so I thought I'd chime in. Maybe this will be helpful... maybe not. But here's what we do:

First, there seems to be a lot of talk about the grade of brisket. What I can tell you is that the best quality brisket that I've been able to cook have been choice. Not prime. In my personal experience, prime packs a bit too much fat, and doesn't render as well. The briskets we use are also called 'natural' - which is sort of a strange term, because it means something different to every company that stamps the word on the side of their box. The two words that seem to be universal, however, is 'hormone free' and 'antibiotic free.' The hormone free is probably the most important one for me. It seems less growth hormones mean smaller cows, and smaller briskets, which I prefer. For natural sourcing, I've used beef from Creekstone, Meyer, and Niman. Meyer and Niman only produce 'natural' beef, Creekstone has a natural and a commodity line.

To trim we cut all but about 1/4 an inch of fat off the flat, remove the divot of tough fat near the connection of the flat and the point, on the topside of the brisket. We trim off excess fat at the very tip of the point and running along the side. If any bits of muscle seem grey or dry, cut them off. On the side, you might notice a large channel of fat running between the flat and the point. It's generally pretty tough stuff. I find that it's smaller on the naturals, and can be massive on commodity beef. You can cut some of this out, but understand that if you do, it will increase the surface area of the brisket, could potentially alter the cook time, and might make it ugly, which is the worst. If you're using a small brisket, this channel shouldn't be super large. If it is, you can cut a bit away, but I wouldn't fuss with it too much. It's better to just cut it out during service. On the underside, you might have a giant wedge of nasty connective tissue and fat. Just lob that whole thing out. It's useless. Also, we like briskets under 12lbs, and like to see a nice thick flat, with a good layer of fat. Also, a minimal slope between the flat and point is best. It'll cook more evenly.

For rub, we just use salt and pepper. Specifically we get whole Tellicherry peppercorns and run them through an old BUNN coffee grinder, then pass that through a sieve - the dusty pepper debris is used for other cooking at the restaurant, while the nice large bits go into our rub. We do this daily. We also use Morton's kosher salt. You can use Diamond too, but understand that the salinity is higher, and the crystals are smaller, so you'll have to adjust your rub. I'd suggest starting at 50/50 by weight, and adjust to your taste from there. Also, always do rubs by weight. Volume is worthless if you want to be consistent.

Season the meat as you see fit. For our beef ribs, we use like, a half a teaspoon of rub on a whole rib. Basically nothing. For briskets, we pack it on. Not all places do. Some go sparingly, others dredge. Total preference. Next, we let the brisket sit in the for a day or two (depending on the size), to let some of the salinity penetrate and to form a pellicle. Then it's time to smoke.

I think this is the hardest thing to talk about. Every day at the restaurant folks will ask what temperature we cook at. I have no problem disclosing, but I feel that I'm doing a disservice because our temperatures are what our smoker needs to work well, and one size doesn't fit all. I used to have a small kettle smoker, and and then a mid-sized offset from Home Depot. Both needed an entirely different set of time and temperatures. What I can say is this. The bigger smoker, the easier it will be to net a great product. Smaller smokers tend to have thinner the walls which will lead to tons of fluctuation during the cook. Fluctuation sucks. Your briskets hate it, and so will your guests. So, if you can get an insulated smoker, get one. If not, try putting some bricks on and around your firebox, or wrap the whole thing in metal insulation. You can throw firesafe moving blankets over the cook chamber. The point is, hold the heat in. Get creative. But understand that holding heat isn't the same as cutting off airflow and oxygen. You should allow your fire to get the oxygen it needs or it will start to smolder and produce acrid smoke. Not tasty.

Ok, on to the cook:

We start cooking at a low temperature, which will make your wood smoke more. The pellicle will help trap the smoke. We use wood aged for about one and a half years. We use all white oak, no charcoal or lighter fluid. The wood is pretty dry stuff. It burns really clean. Not much silty smoke. We'll go low for a few hours, maybe 4 depending on the size of the briskets, then we'll crank the heat into the 250 - 260's for another 4, and will finally go up to 310 - 325. We also wrap our briskets with butcher paper when they get a nice color. Wrapping them tightly will hold in more moisture and induce a bit of a braise, wrap them loose and the paper will release more fat. Up to you. That last cycle at the end seems that it would burn the briskets, and maybe if you have a small smoker it will, so be careful, but for us it actually sort of cauterizes the meat. It allows us to sear the outside, which I've found helps retain more moisture on the inside, especially in the flat. When it's done we'll let them breath for a moment on the smoker, then I'll rest them for around 4 hours before we serve them. Save the butcher paper, you can use it to light the fire next time.

It should also be said that I like to serve super tender brisket. Many places prefer much more of a steaky texture. That's totally preference, but it's not mine.

Anyway, I hope this is helpful. My biggest take aways are:
• The quality of the beef has a huge impact on the final product. Call the meat companies, figure out who is the local distributor, and drive there. Coerce them into selling you a nice ass brisket. Ask them to go inside the plant and pick one.
• What we do, or any of the other BBQ guys do, is ALWAYS slave to the smoker. You've got to, got to, got to keep working to understand your cooker. That's the key.
• No dirty fires, no dirty smokers, clean it all, season it. Treat it like precious cast iron cookware.
• Insulation is your friend.
• A good brisket doesn't need much seasoning.

I don't know what else. I hope this is helpful. Feel free to write back if there are any questions.

Dan

--
Delaney Barbecue
BrisketTown / SmokeLine
danieldelaney is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-02-2013, 06:36 PM   #49
MS2SB
is One Chatty Farker

 
MS2SB's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-10
Location: Bothell, WA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

And there you have it, straight from the horses mouth.
__________________
Traeger lil Tex, 2 Weber 22.5", UDS
"Go Cougs!"
They call me "Dave"
Original Noobian Warlord
Loser of Known Space
MS2SB is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-02-2013, 06:51 PM   #50
dwfisk
is Blowin Smoke!

 
dwfisk's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-01-12
Location: Fairfield, FL
Downloads: 1
Uploads: 0
Default

Listen to this brother-changed the way I cook brisket and I definetely mean for the better!
I like to start with 15# packers; choice has been good enough for me
Trim to 1/4 inch or less & get rid of all the hard yellow fat
Clean smoke; manage your fire; 300*-325* for 4 hours
Wrap in BP for 1-1/2 to 2 hours & probe tender
Let it set for a while (30 minutes) or hold in a cooler/cambro until you are ready to eat
Once you slice it, eat it. If you are going to save/freeze some, hold it in big chucks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bludawg View Post
If you watch the man with no first name videos that is my cook method to a "T" thank's jmoney for posting That. It save me the trouble.
__________________
I'm Dave
Weber 26.75 OTG w/CI grates & SJ/WSM Mini
Home built 24"x72" reverse flow stick burner trailer with 18"x44" grill w/CI grates and upright SS gas oven/smoker.
Home built 48" fire pit with a 30"x30" Santa Maria style ranch grill.
Home built lump charcoal retort, iGrill & a bunch of other cooking toys.
dwfisk is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-02-2013, 07:03 PM   #51
landarc
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
landarc's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-26-09
Location: San Leandro, CA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Thanks for posting and being willing to share Dan. I really appreciate when someone with a great track record and a pro is willing to openly share his knowledge with the rest of us.

I like your process, of course, that could be because there are some similarities to what I have learned to do. I should examine my process and see where I can learn some more from you.
__________________
I'm feeling bearish, and I'm packing a Wusthof Grand Brisket slicer from MABA

Whip It Off, Chambers!

"perhaps...but then again...maybe not..."
landarc is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 04-02-2013, 08:07 PM   #52
AustinKnight
is One Chatty Farker

 
AustinKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-23-10
Location: Austin Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

hominamad you should be off to a really good start on perfecting your brisket skills, I don't feel the need to share anything THx to all these chatty farkers, dam tapatalk But for every brisket thread that is started I will now post this pic every time so get used to it brethren.

__________________
|HOOK'EM UDS|MINI UDS|22.5 WEBER PERF|B&B|OAK & PECAN|DIGIQ|TW8060|THERMAPEN ORANGE|Char-Griller Akorn|Thin Blue Smokery|
AustinKnight is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 04-02-2013, 09:38 PM   #53
hominamad
Knows what a fatty is.
 
Join Date: 07-12-10
Location: New York
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Hi Dan - can't thank you enough for replying to my thread. Your brisket is one of the best if not THE best I've had - but bear in mind I am but a city boy.

I still have another 1/2 lb of brisket reserved at your place so you will be seeing me in the restaurant some time in the next few weeks.

I've decided that I'm not going to bother with a gas or pellet smoker. I think I'm going to purchase a WSM or the Napoleon Apollo smoker. I imagine I should be able to produce a decent packer brisket with that? I watched all of Aaron Franklin's videos and he uses an offset smoker - but I've read that those are not so great (at least one in the price range of a WSM).

One final question for you Dan - do you have any recommendations of where to buy a good quality packer retail in the NYC area? Is it overkill to buy this from a place like Lobels?

I will post back here after my next brisket attempt. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed here.

h
hominamad is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-02-2013, 10:46 PM   #54
willbird
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 06-30-12
Location: MOntpelier,OH
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bludawg View Post
1.5 hrs a lb is a good guesstimate if your cooking between 225-250 I cook at 300 and it drops dramatically to 50 min for unwrapped to 40 min wrapped( Butcher Paper)but in no way is that set in stone. Variance in meat and ambient temp will affect these guesstimate times to a degree.
Only tried the paper wrap once, but trying to probe with the grain inside the paper was an issue for me.............

The Brisket I most fondly remember was the Harry Soo method, probably overdone by competition standards, but damn was it GOOD :-). Second best was one I pulled at "tough and under done" and sliced, then trying to save it laid the slices in a roaster with a good spritz of Maggi then into the oven til it was actually tender.
willbird is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-03-2013, 07:24 AM   #55
Bbq Bubba
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Bbq Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-03-07
Location: New Baltimore, Mi.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I cant add much more than already has been said except....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2013-03-15 07.47.44.jpg (161.4 KB, 126 views)
File Type: jpg 2013-03-15 07.01.09.jpg (101.1 KB, 126 views)
__________________
Pitmaster @ Lockharts BBQ
Beer Snob
I cook the best brisket north of Dallas. Get over it.
Northern midwest director for OBR
www.operationbbqrelief.com
#detroitporkmafia
BBQ Person of the Year 2013
Bbq Bubba is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 04-03-2013, 08:05 AM   #56
JS-TX
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 02-17-10
Location: San Antonio, TX
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willbird View Post
Only tried the paper wrap once, but trying to probe with the grain inside the paper was an issue for me.............
What is your reason for trying to probe with the grain?
JS-TX is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-03-2013, 08:25 AM   #57
willbird
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 06-30-12
Location: MOntpelier,OH
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS-TX View Post
What is your reason for trying to probe with the grain?
I thought I was supposed to ?? If it does not matter, well that makes it a lot easier :-).

Bill
willbird is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-03-2013, 09:16 AM   #58
Bbq Bubba
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Bbq Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-03-07
Location: New Baltimore, Mi.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willbird View Post
I thought I was supposed to ?? If it does not matter, well that makes it a lot easier :-).

Bill
For proper feel you should probe with the grain. Going against will give you a false reading. (feel)
__________________
Pitmaster @ Lockharts BBQ
Beer Snob
I cook the best brisket north of Dallas. Get over it.
Northern midwest director for OBR
www.operationbbqrelief.com
#detroitporkmafia
BBQ Person of the Year 2013
Bbq Bubba is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-03-2013, 10:48 AM   #59
WareZdaBeef
Knows what a fatty is.
 
Join Date: 02-25-12
Location: PA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Im finding the longer and lower the collagen and connective tissue breakdown temperature the better the brisket. I found a 24-26 hour cook to an internal temp between 145F and 148F produces amazing results. Still some slight pink in the middle, muscle fibers start breaking down and can be pulled apart with ease, yet can still be sliced thin or thick or chopped.
WareZdaBeef is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-03-2013, 10:51 AM   #60
dealm9
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Join Date: 04-22-11
Location: Cleveland, OH
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

This thread has a bunch of information from great minds on how to cook a great brisket. However, after reading this entire the thread, I think the most valuable lesson is that no part of bbq is a science. You cannot cook a great brisket simply by reading this thread. It's going to take practice and experience. Franklin or whoever may cook their triple ultra marbled super quality just alive one minute ago brisket at 312.5 degrees and great brisket and joe schmoe may cook his mildew covered piece of meat which looks more like a shoe at 225 and get a great brisket. There is no single temperature, method, or cooker to achieving great brisket. It is not like there is some secret that all the greats are keeping to themselves. Trial and error is the only secret to success. This forum is best served to learn from other people's trial and error so you dont have to come upon error as much but ultimately it is something you will have to go through in order to make good brisket. Therefore, if you are thinking of buying a pellet cooker just to achieve good brisket I highly suggest you do not. It will not change your brisket IMHO. What will is practice and learning from the people here.
__________________
Mark...UDS, 22.5 weber knock-off kettle, gasser. GO BROWNS!!!
dealm9 is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Thanks from:--->
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts