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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 12-24-2012, 02:58 PM   #1
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Default Ever used the Papain (Papaya) based meat tenderizer?

I should know better than experimenting when I have more than 20 people coming over, but what the heck.

Among other meats, I've got 6 tri tips marinading in a mixture of soy, worsh, wine, garlic, onion, and seasoned meat tenderizer. I'm looking for tri tip that will literally melt like butter.

Ever used Papain based meat tenderizer on beef? Your experiences?
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Unread 12-24-2012, 03:19 PM   #2
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Marinades don't penetrate nor do acids tenderize,except for making the outer mushy.
Papain, if not time controlled, will turn the meat to mush also.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but at least you have something that will tenderize.
Nothing is going to make tri tip melt literally like butter.
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Unread 12-24-2012, 03:23 PM   #3
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I've never experienced mushy meat, using any marinades....ever.

If marinades do not penetrate, why are the consistently used by millions of people?

If they do not penetrate, the taste sure tricks one into into thinking that they do.

I think you are wrong in your generalizations of Marinades Buc.
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Unread 12-24-2012, 03:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tortaboy View Post
I've never experienced mushy meat, using any marinades....ever.

If marinades do not penetrate, why are the consistently used by millions of people?

If they do not penetrate, the taste sure tricks one into into thinking that they do.

I think you are wrong in your generalizations of Marinades Buc.
Proven food science.
People's perceptions are extremely fallible, scientific testing is not.
Using an MRA on meat marinated for extended periods showed 1/16 penetration, yet the outer had protein collapse from the acids, which is a form of cooking really.
Yet people will use a marinade and eat it, and rave about the penetration and flavor depth.
That is just how it is.

Marinades benefit by lowering flare up, and by searing into the outer of the meat adding a flavor layer.
That's all.
I invite you to put a tri tip in a container of papain enzyme and wait a day or so.
Then tell me if you still have never seen mushy meat?
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Unread 12-24-2012, 03:42 PM   #5
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I invite you to put a tri tip in a container of papain enzyme and wait a day or so.
Then tell me if you still have never seen mushy meat?
Will do.

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Unread 12-24-2012, 04:16 PM   #6
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To you and yours also!
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Unread 12-24-2012, 05:26 PM   #7
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I have used papain with some marinades for goat meat. Personally I do not care much for marinades any more, at least not long ones.

For example, I used to marinate chicken overnight with spices and yogurt when making chicken tikka or tandoori chicken. Guests would rave about how tender and soft the meat was, when to me it was mushy. I didn't care for it that much. I prefer to marinate my chicken for about 4-6hrs now.

The same goes for my goat meat items. I don't marinate overnight anymore. I don't miss the papain, because the meat would turn to mush and I didn't care for the texture. I am speaking in the context of Indian recipes (the country, not Native American) so YMMV.

Having said that, give it a try and report back. What fun would any of this be without experimentation and trying something new now and then?
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Unread 12-24-2012, 05:37 PM   #8
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I'm wondering what is in the commercial marinades, such as the ones that Costco sells (marinaded tri tips)? I LOVE that stuff.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=81597
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Unread 12-24-2012, 08:24 PM   #9
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When wet aging a brisket it is supposedly the enzymes that break it down and make it more tender. While Papain and Bromelain are much more aggresive than what naturally occurs in the meat, I wonder if the proper amount would be beneficial in the same way. I'm thinking that injection would have to be involved to evenly distribute the enzymes.
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Unread 12-24-2012, 08:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tortaboy View Post
I've never experienced mushy meat, using any marinades....ever.

If marinades do not penetrate, why are the consistently used by millions of people?

If they do not penetrate, the taste sure tricks one into into thinking that they do.

I think you are wrong in your generalizations of Marinades Buc.
Some interesting info on marinades.

http://amazingribs.com/recipes/rubs_...marinades.html
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Unread 12-25-2012, 01:03 PM   #11
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The results are in:

I was concerned about trying something new for the family, so, I woke up early and did a test cook (Steak and Eggs for Breakfast...yeah baby).

The Tri Tip felt soft to the touch, but definitely not what I would call mushy at all.

After cooking to 140, resting, and slicing, I ended up with a very tender Tri Tip Roast. Definitely more tender than without using tenderizer. It reminds me of prime rib tenderness. If you consider that mushy....so be it.

Because I used a lot of soy in the marinade, along with seasoned Papaya tenderizer, I thought the meat was a bit too salty. My wife tasted it and said it was perfect.....what did I expect from a soy based marinade?

So, when I cook for the group this afternoon, I'll rub with some Sugar in the Raw brown sugar to balance out the salt.

My thoughts:

1) Regardless of what the science says, marinade makes meat taste more moist and flavorful.
2) Regardless of what the science says, tenderizer makes Tri Tip even more tender, and zero mush even after two days in the marinade.
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Unread 12-25-2012, 01:15 PM   #12
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What if you cooked em like a Brisket?
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Unread 12-25-2012, 01:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
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What if you cooked em like a Brisket?
I did.....

I cooked it indirect at about 300 degrees. I didn't cook to the high internal temp of a brisket, but the method of cooking was identical.

I didn't sear it like a big steak.
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Unread 12-25-2012, 01:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
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What if you cooked em like a Brisket?
Be sure to wrap in foil and into the crock pot????
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Unread 12-25-2012, 01:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tortaboy View Post
The results are in:

I was concerned about trying something new for the family, so, I woke up early and did a test cook (Steak and Eggs for Breakfast...yeah baby).

The Tri Tip felt soft to the touch, but definitely not what I would call mushy at all.

After cooking to 140, resting, and slicing, I ended up with a very tender Tri Tip Roast. Definitely more tender than without using tenderizer. It reminds me of prime rib tenderness. If you consider that mushy....so be it.

Because I used a lot of soy in the marinade, along with seasoned Papaya tenderizer, I thought the meat was a bit too salty. My wife tasted it and said it was perfect.....what did I expect from a soy based marinade?

So, when I cook for the group this afternoon, I'll rub with some Sugar in the Raw brown sugar to balance out the salt.

My thoughts:

1) Regardless of what the science says, marinade makes meat taste more moist and flavorful.
2) Regardless of what the science says, tenderizer makes Tri Tip even more tender, and zero mush even after two days in the marinade.
Wouldn't injecting them give you better results? Maybe Knucklehead will chime in on this one.
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