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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 12-04-2012, 04:48 PM   #16
deguerre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManakooraMan View Post
I wanted to like using one, but its mostly good for chopping vegetables. It's too small for slice meat and too thin for hacking. If you want a Japanese knife type would suggest getting a deba. Deba is the infinite-toku.
Mine gets a LOT of use on meat, especially leftovers cold from the fridge. Again, it allows me more control I think.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 04:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by HeSmellsLikeSmoke View Post
I want one, but will I actually use one enough to justify buying it? My understanding is that Santuko literally means "three virtues" in that it evolved as a combination of classic Japanese knife shapes so is a all-purpose knife.

As a general rule, my experience with multil-purpose anythings is that they make compromises to the originals so it is usually better to have the originals.

My primary chopping knives, which I am very happy with by the way, are an old 8" J.A. Henckels Pro S Chef and a Dexter 8" Chinese Cleaver. I also have an old, stamped Chicago Cutlery 8" Chef which I use a surprising amount since I got my EdgePro Apex sharpener and put a good a very good edge on it.
Whoa, brother, you are getting the kitchen sink thrown at you in advice terms.
Santoku is a very useful multi purpose knife that does a lot oj jobs well.
It is like a housewife chef knife, of sorts.
You already are happy handling bigger heavier knives so I would ask if the cleaver you have is thin and great at doing sliced vegetables?
That is where the santoku replaces the usuba/ and Nakiri, both supreme vegetable tools.
That is all I see lacking that the santoku will do better.
The Debu, like all Japanese tools, has its
's specific use and is not as flexible at the Santoku.
The Japanese approach is very different, they don't generally make multi purpose tools, but have over 100 blade designs ALL for a specific set of jobs.
Santoku is multi purpose.
It will do veges great, peel, slice and dice and if you buy one with enough belly it will do meat well too.
It's thin and must not be bashed on bone.
I'd buy a kiwi Nakiri style stainless cleaver probably, and that would do all the non chef knofe jobs.
If you like the look of the santoku and want it, now you have a good idea of what you are looking at.
HTH
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Unread 12-04-2012, 04:52 PM   #18
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Never argue with an Australian about knives...
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Unread 12-04-2012, 05:10 PM   #19
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Unless you work in a sushi restaurant don't worry about the traditional use. For example, the Japanese chef knife is the gyuto but you no need to only cut beef wid it. They got the takohiki no need to only cut octopus. Go to the store and pick up a Santoku. Check the balance.

That said, in my book the best looking Japanese knife is the yanagiba but you can only do pull slice wid it.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 05:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManakooraMan View Post
Unless you work in a sushi restaurant don't worry about the traditional use. For example, the Japanese chef knife is the gyuto but you no need to only cut beef wid it. They got the takohiki no need to only cut octopus. Go to the store and pick up a Santoku. Check the balance.

That said, in my book the best looking Japanese knife is the yanagiba but you can only do pull slice wid it.
So if you use a debu for meats, how do you sharpen it?
It is like no other knife at the edge, do you realize that?

I agree that the Yanagiba is a beautiful thing aesthetically tho.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 05:20 PM   #21
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Assume you are talkin bout the back hollow grind? You can do that with all these single bevels not just the deba. Could just as easily put a double bevel to it. The wide spine makes a nice kine balance to a smaller knife. But bottomline gotta go pick up the knife you want first.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 05:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManakooraMan View Post
Assume you are talkin bout the back hollow grind? You can do that with all these single bevels not just the deba. Could just as easily put a double bevel to it. The wide spine makes a nice kine balance to a smaller knife. But bottomline gotta go pick up the knife you want first.
Sigh.
This is why, many decades ago, I predicted all deba's would go extinct.
Ai deba, Atsu deba, all of them, they cannot be sharpened by any old pleb and retain their specialized benefits.(Double bevel are a new western syle)
I've never met anyone outside of Japan who can do it, and I can't do it although I have watched carefully when it was demonstrated to me.
Their edge is a clam edge and it is designed to cut soft meat for a LONG time before needing sharpening.
Once you sharpen or use a steel and turn that into a normal bevel, it is just like any other knife.
It was designed so because it kept its fine cutting edge when pressed against bones in fish heads.

The OP has the same approach as me, I don't go picking the knife I want, I pick the knife most suitable for the purpose.
I love knifes and am not a robot, aesthetically I am swayed, but the primary rule is to choose the right tool for the specific job.
Deba's just are not good for the jobs a santoku do.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 05:38 PM   #23
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I have a Shun Santoku and it is without a doubt my most used knife, mainly because what I do the most with a knife in the kitchen is dicing and chopping and this is where the Santoku has it strengths, not because it is the single best tool for most things in the kitchen. For other chores in the kitchen like trimming meats, or slicing, I grab other knives.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 05:52 PM   #24
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The double bevel western style is the most convenient to cut with. I don't happen to think you have to put a hamaguri to the deba or it is kapu to use. The heft to a smaller knife is the primary advantage that I like about the deba. One thing I forgot to mention is to size the knife according to your height and arm length they make all kine sizes. Aloha.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 06:01 PM   #25
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Hamagura to deba is like bootshining a sneaker.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 06:14 PM   #26
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No more shoes in Hawai'i so no understand the reference. Thought you said you like more clamshell/hamaguri on your deba edge? I think we can debate the merits of Japanese knife sharpening all day here. The point coming back to the Santoku question is that just because a knife is japanese not western shouldn't mean it's use is more strict. You paid your money so use your knife however best. I think the main reason the Santoku over other knife types was marketed so much in the west was because it is a good looking small chef's knife. The deba has more belly, heft and may or may not have clamshell edge. Lol.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 06:31 PM   #27
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@ shoes.
Okay, I don't agree that is is only marketing that is making the santoku popular, nor it's aesthetics.
I want to best serve the OP , I'm also not interested in the ego dance between brothers, just to be on the same page emotionally.
I agree that you use the knife how you want, but it is best to use it in a manner that keeps it's attributes.
I think the santoku is a great tool because it's thinness and the space between the knife edge and handle means it is super at doing slice and dice veges, it is just a great light and easy tool for many kitchen jobs.
A deba with it's fat blade is not good at slice and dice veges, in comparison.
It is better at pressing through soft tissue.
To aid the OP in his decision, I make the point that a nakiri added to his collection would do those tasks admirably, plus he gets a grater, shredder, hammer, tenderizer as well, but the deba isn't going to fill that space.
He light rather go with a santoku but he is a smart guy, he survived living in Perth!
He will pick out the info he trusts the most and make his decision.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 06:35 PM   #28
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I am not a huge fan of the Santoku when I am doing Japanese food, it is a hybrid knife, and it is not quite as good as the specialized knives at many things. It is not, by the way, a cleaver. It is meant to replace the Gyuto, Petty and Nakiri, which is to say, it is for general slicing, vegetable prep and fruit and detail work. It does all of these passingly and none of these things great. I do have two of them, and my tenant loves to use them. I actually prefer my Chef's knife, as I can do all of the same things, but, faster, cleaner and better with a 8 to 10 inch gyuto or Chef's knife.

That being said, I much prefer the carbon steel Japanese santoku to the stainless steel ones from Europe, as the European ones have a funky belly to the edge. I prefer the straighter edge for working with vegetables. I never use my santoku on meat.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 06:36 PM   #29
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I have no use for a Deba, I do want a new Gyuto. I love my Yanagibe and want a Takohiki, but, they are pricey. I also need a couple of new Nakiri, just do not know where they went to.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 06:39 PM   #30
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I dig the Nakiri myself. Looking for a nice long slicer next. I have a Shun 9" but it's more carving than slicing. Never too many tools in the box.
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