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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 12-04-2012, 09:32 AM   #1
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Default Hereford versus Angus etc. for Xmas dinner

Wondering if some learned brethren might chime in on the differences between angus and hereford beef cattle.

I've gotten some amazingly good tenderloins from Fresh Market that were hereford, but I'm contemplating my Christmas cook of "prime rib" and deciding on where to source it from.

Wagyu and Kobe seem a bit expensive, but I'm considering that as well. I'd like it to be a real special meal this year.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 09:43 AM   #2
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I have a neighbor that tells me his Shorthorn's are the best.
Prime beef is prime beef to my taste. But if you find a butcher that can dry age properly......you can't go wrong with either.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 10:19 AM   #3
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A few weeks ago I got some Hereford NY Strips from Fresh Market and was very pleased with them. IMHO I think it matters more what the cut of beef looks like as far as marbleing and how the beef was raised. I may be wrong, but my uncle raises beef and sales the meat hisself. He claims that the USDA states that if a cow is 80% angus then it is angus, and if you take a trailer load of cows to the butcher if 8 out of ten cows are angus then every cow is considered angus. I'm sure some others know more than I do. Just repeating what I'm told and we know where will get you.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 10:23 AM   #4
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Black white face best of both worlds
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Unread 12-04-2012, 10:58 AM   #5
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The quality of the beef is dependent upon the quality of care and food given to the animal in the growing stages, as well as the quality and care in the slaughter house pens.

Just like our craft, it's not the sauce that make it "Q".

So a name or label doesn't make it a better type of meat.... It's marketing..

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Unread 12-04-2012, 11:27 AM   #6
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If both cows ( Angus & Herford) grazed the same range and where both finished in the same feed lot you would be hard pressed to tell the difference if they both graded out the same. I'm a Santa Gertrudis man my self.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 11:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMadMan View Post
The quality of the beef is dependent upon the quality of care and food given to the animal in the growing stages, as well as the quality and care in the slaughter house pens.

Just like our craft, it's not the sauce that make it "Q".

So a name or label doesn't make it a better type of meat.... It's marketing..

.
+1, Now being a buffalo rancher I am prejudiced, but I have raised them all. It is all about how they are cared for in raising them and the care in butchering them.
I do have to say that it is easier to raise a good quality animal than to take a mediocre one and turn it into a good one. Know your rancher.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 11:58 AM   #8
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I owned a small meat market a few years back and learned a lot through our vendors and such. Essentially branded meats "Certified Angus" "Hereford Gold" etc are all just marketing arms of large commercial beef producers. These are to give them a brand so they can sell at higher prices and can segment their distribution. The same producer might sell the same beef under 4-5 labels (1 to walMart at lower prices, 1 to to warehouse stores, another to boutique stores at much higher prices etc). Also, to be called "Angus" or "Hereford" you only have to have a small percentage of that breed. Some well under 50%. The other 50% of the cow can be anything. several breeds in fact. So if you buy an "Angus" steak, it may be 10% angus or 50% angus. The rules are very dodgy and made up by the producers so they can be anything they want.

Your best bet is to shop by how it looks and leave the branding to the experts. Flavor difference in beef comes from how they are finished (corn, grain, grass etc) not their breed. I've also bought tons of choice steaks that were better looking than the prime sitting next to it so knowing what to look for is key.

Just find you a very well marbled cut of beef that has a great color to it. Some are brighter than other but there are many reasons for that. I actually like a darker steak (not browning, but dark throughout). That shows it's been nicely wet aged in the cryo for a few weeks and add flavor and tenderness. Bright red in grocery stores is fine but it's normally been in a case that has pumped full of carbon monoxide to keep it red. Yeah, the poison gas. it's in harmless amounts but I prefer to go without when I can.

If you like your butcher and he has been hooking you up with the good stuff, I say stick with him. Him calling it by a brand is a way for him to be able to compete against all the monster food warehouses so it's a good thing. It will cost you a little more but consider that the cost of having a good butcher. It's worth it..
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Unread 12-04-2012, 01:45 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the info. What I would give ($$$) for a really good butcher here in Jax. Fl.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 02:33 PM   #10
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and BTW- Kobe and Wagyu are marketing terms as well. Wagyu just means "Cattle" in Japanese but there are a few breeds out there that people have brought over here to cross with Hereford, Angus etc. There may be very little "Wagyu" left in the current herd but some of these boutique guys really produce some spectacularly marbled gorgeous beef.

Kobe...well read this if you want to know the truth about american Kobe:

http://www.thekitchn.com/kobe-beef-f...-forbes-170268
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Unread 12-04-2012, 03:52 PM   #11
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I agree with all the above statements as to "CAB" and "HG" etc. just being marketing schemes. In obtaining my degree in Animal and Dairy Sciences and subsequent career as an agriculture teacher, I can tell you with 100% certainty that basically to call a "lot" of beef CAB the main and #1 requirement is that the pen of live cattle must be at LEAST 50% black hyde cattle. I tell my students that a pen of Holstein steers that have more black on them than white can be marketed as "angus beef."

If you look at all the markets, restaurants, butchers, etc. that claim to have CAB and then look at actual number of registered or purebred angus cattle available for breeding stock it doesn't take long to recognize that there are more being sold than could possibly be "angus" and to re-enforce that argument, look at all the other breeds and crosses that are sold and given that some of their carcasses will be high quality, it would stand to reason that once the hyde is pulled off and all you have is a carcass of red meat then it probably won't end up in "BAR S" weiners or Armour Potted Meat.

Good meat is good meat. The hyde and hair do little for flavor when I cook it. Most of the time the hair and hyde is long gone before I slap it into a cooker.

I do agree though, that some breeds have certain attributes that make them a generally desirable carcass, but at the same time there will be some "dog" quality within that same breed as well that wouldn't likely make even good jerky or dog chews.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 04:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehawg View Post
I agree with all the above statements as to "CAB" and "HG" etc. just being marketing schemes. In obtaining my degree in Animal and Dairy Sciences and subsequent career as an agriculture teacher, I can tell you with 100% certainty that basically to call a "lot" of beef CAB the main and #1 requirement is that the pen of live cattle must be at LEAST 50% black hyde cattle. I tell my students that a pen of Holstein steers that have more black on them than white can be marketed as "angus beef."

If you look at all the markets, restaurants, butchers, etc. that claim to have CAB and then look at actual number of registered or purebred angus cattle available for breeding stock it doesn't take long to recognize that there are more being sold than could possibly be "angus" and to re-enforce that argument, look at all the other breeds and crosses that are sold and given that some of their carcasses will be high quality, it would stand to reason that once the hyde is pulled off and all you have is a carcass of red meat then it probably won't end up in "BAR S" weiners or Armour Potted Meat.

Good meat is good meat. The hyde and hair do little for flavor when I cook it. Most of the time the hair and hyde is long gone before I slap it into a cooker.

I do agree though, that some breeds have certain attributes that make them a generally desirable carcass, but at the same time there will be some "dog" quality within that same breed as well that wouldn't likely make even good jerky or dog chews.
Nice. I think I read the CAB, for example, requires 51% angus to be considered CAB. And that's what they are using as marketing material! "hey our angus is at least half angus!"
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Unread 12-04-2012, 05:51 PM   #13
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The thinking here is for American produce of course.
If you are buying Australian imported Wagyu then it IS the real deal.
Same with our lamb, Olive Oils and so on.
Don't want your domestic laws messing with a country that is putting the work and effort into producing transparent excellence, that wouldn't be fair.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 06:43 PM   #14
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Buccs, we are not allowed to produce full blood Wa-gyu cattle here. The limitations put on the introduction of the original genetic material is that it could only be bred to female Angus. The Japanese did not allow full blood stock to enter the U.S. except for highly controlled breeding.

We should stop using the term Kobe, but, then again, we use the term Champagne, Brie, Cheddar, Belgian and Chianti with little regard to International laws as it is.

By the way, I would get the best grade beef I could afford, and not worry about Angus or Hereford. I can still remember my uncle getting upset, he somehow knew he was served Angus, he said 'we are Hereford people, that is what we eat'.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 06:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneer View Post
The thinking here is for American produce of course.
If you are buying Australian imported Wagyu then it IS the real deal.
Same with our lamb, Olive Oils and so on.
Don't want your domestic laws messing with a country that is putting the work and effort into producing transparent excellence, that wouldn't be fair.
right....but the word wagyu just means japanese cow. There is no such breed as Wagyu. There are no standards to call something wagyu (other than those created by the breeder associations).

I'm sure it's awesome beef. Ours is too. Just saying it's all marketing
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