Flat question while in cook 5hrs in 185F? Help - Page 2

smokainmuskoka · 11-28-2012, 09:03 AM

The appearance of the brisket looks great and I'm sure the sauce helped a bit with the dryness. Some cuts are just dryer than others.
The smoke ring looks great - what kind of wood are you using?
I'm a bit confused by your comment that you wrapped at 180F, then you say it read 165F after 2 more hours in the cooker. Something's out of whack - the temp should rise.

smokainmuskoka · 11-28-2012, 09:20 AM

The other trip I've seen here on the forum is injecting the brisket with some canola oil to help keep it moist. I haven't tried it, but it's something to consider. Also injecting with beef broth(thanks for the reminder Skidder) is an option.

ITT 250 · 11-28-2012, 10:38 AM

I did inject it but only with a bit of beef broth. If you go back in the posts, I checked the temp on the grill after 5 hrs, it was 180F on my Thermoworx. I took it off and put it in the cooler and wrapped it. I checked the board again and after reading some more posts, I decided to keep the foil on but put it back on the grill. I left it there for another 2 hrs. It was only 160F. I then put it in the cooler for an hour thinking it will rise. stayed 160F. Unwrapped, and put back on cooker for 10min just to Bark it up a bit.

centexsmoker · 11-28-2012, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITT 250

Well Here she is. im not doing flats anymore. I follow th recipes on here and there for whole packers. I tasted great, but was dry. Thankfully when i was in Dallas i got some Cousins Brisket sauce.

Pls Comment as i learn tons from you guys.

My thermo pen said 180 after 5hrs. I foiled it after the comments of just leaving it on. 165 after 2hrs in foil on the cooker. Total cook time 7hrs.

Smoke ring was awesome

Still tasted great, but dry. Oh well, theres always next time.

I won't do a flat either. Just not worth the effort. Fortunately, Packers are as common as butts down here in Austin so I don't have to choose.

I eat the fat end of the flat and the point and chop up the thin part of the flat and sauce it for chopped beef. Mostly, the flat goes to the kids and the uninformed at my house.

I do like chopped flat though so if it's dry, just chop it up and sauce it. it will still be better than any other BBQ you will get in your area

willbird · 11-28-2012, 11:03 AM

The story is as I understand it, undercooking causes more dry briskets than over cooking. Did it probe like butter at 180f internal ?

Bill

ITT 250 · 12-01-2012, 07:23 AM

No not really. That's why I got confused. And the guys where saying that doesn't happen to flats. The meat was so lean I couldn't even see and fat other than the cap.

willbird · 12-01-2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITT 250

No not really. That's why I got confused. And the guys where saying that doesn't happen to flats. The meat was so lean I couldn't even see and fat other than the cap.

The "womans breast" jiggle does not happen with flats (as I understand it)...yes the flat is very lean, it should still probe tender though to be fully cooked. Never cooked a flat myself yet.

Bill

QTEX · 12-01-2012, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITT 250

I did inject it but only with a bit of beef broth. If you go back in the posts, I checked the temp on the grill after 5 hrs, it was 180F on my Thermoworx. I took it off and put it in the cooler and wrapped it. I checked the board again and after reading some more posts, I decided to keep the foil on but put it back on the grill. I left it there for another 2 hrs. It was only 160F. I then put it in the cooler for an hour thinking it will rise. stayed 160F. Unwrapped, and put back on cooker for 10min just to Bark it up a bit.

Something still out of whack there, that does not make sense. It should still probe tender even if its a flat especially after that much time it should have actually been way overcooked and fall apart barbacoa tender even dry as you stated. I cook whole packers (10-12lbs) at 275 300 in 5 to 6 hours. Cooked a flat last weekend just as an experiment it was done in 3 hours @ 300. Have you checked the temp guages or that thermo thing for accuracy?

smokeyokie · 12-01-2012, 12:35 PM

I think the biggest thing that jumps of the screen at me is... make sure your temp gauges are accurate, then always cook a brisket until probe tender, I dont start checking mine for tenderness until about 195 IT. foiling at 165 is OK add a little broth to a flat because of the leanness of the cut, but back on until it gets probe tender, then put in cooler and let it rest. I can almost guarantee that it will be much more tender and juicy than what you think it will be. Also flat can be very finicky I prefer to cook packers that I trim up myself.. Smoke on Brother!!

willbird · 12-01-2012, 04:18 PM

Also if like many of us you DO pull one too early....you can put it in a roasting pan and cover that with foil (I put the rack in the roaster and sprinkled some maggi seasoning on top) then roast at 225 for an hour or so and it will salvage it so you can eat it :-).

landarc · 12-01-2012, 05:09 PM

A few thoughts...

1. My kettle is 16 degrees hotter in the dome than at the grate. That means you were cooking around 235F, and I have seen as much as 25 degrees. You need to be certain of that variable.

2. You most definitely did not get that cooked enough. It is not done, I can tell by the texture where you cut it. Even a flat, cooked properly has a relaxed grain texture, it will pull apart as you slice it just a little, yours is still very tight, makes super clean slices, not quite there.

3. You monitored and put way too much emphasis on internal temperature, this is your second flaw in your cook (the first one is that you do not really know what your grate temperature was). The internal temperature on a flat is useless. Also, taking tips on how to cook a packer and then doing a flat will lead to problems.

4. Even a flat, cook hotter. Run your cooker at 275F grate temperature, it will be fine. Cook it until the color is a nice mahogany, probe it, most likely it will be hard. This is fine. Foil it, adding 1/4 cup of beef broth, and put it back onto the pit. Note, at this time, give the packet a squeeze, it will feel hard, remember this. After a couple of hours, stick it with your thermo, is it soft? hard? if you have a Thermapen, take a temperature. If it is not soft, note the temp. If it is 165F, you have at least another hour before checking, if it is 180F, then you should check in 30 minutes. If it is 195F, then check in 15 to 20 minutes. Also, squeeze the packet at this time, if it is soft, then you are close and should be checking every 20 minutes, if it is hard, regardless of IT, let it run for an hour. A flat that is done will have give, even under a couple of layers of foil or paper.

5. A flat will never jiggle.

11-28-2012, 09:03 AM	#16
smokainmuskoka Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 08-30-11 Location: Huntsville, Ontario, Canada Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The appearance of the brisket looks great and I'm sure the sauce helped a bit with the dryness. Some cuts are just dryer than others. The smoke ring looks great - what kind of wood are you using? I'm a bit confused by your comment that you wrapped at 180F, then you say it read 165F after 2 more hours in the cooker. Something's out of whack - the temp should rise. Last edited by smokainmuskoka; 11-28-2012 at 09:03 AM.. Reason: punc.

12-01-2012, 12:35 PM	#24
smokeyokie is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 04-26-11 Location: Vinita, OK Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think the biggest thing that jumps of the screen at me is... make sure your temp gauges are accurate, then always cook a brisket until probe tender, I dont start checking mine for tenderness until about 195 IT. foiling at 165 is OK add a little broth to a flat because of the leanness of the cut, but back on until it gets probe tender, then put in cooler and let it rest. I can almost guarantee that it will be much more tender and juicy than what you think it will be. Also flat can be very finicky I prefer to cook packers that I trim up myself.. Smoke on Brother!! __________________ open brick fire pit weber smokey joe with homemade WSM 2 weber kettle maverick ET 732 1 really, I mean really UGLY Drum Smoker super fast RED and BLACK thermapens _____________________ Billy"Smoke on Brothers and Sisters"

12-01-2012, 05:09 PM	#26
landarc somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 06-26-09 Location: San Leandro, CA Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A few thoughts... 1. My kettle is 16 degrees hotter in the dome than at the grate. That means you were cooking around 235F, and I have seen as much as 25 degrees. You need to be certain of that variable. 2. You most definitely did not get that cooked enough. It is not done, I can tell by the texture where you cut it. Even a flat, cooked properly has a relaxed grain texture, it will pull apart as you slice it just a little, yours is still very tight, makes super clean slices, not quite there. 3. You monitored and put way too much emphasis on internal temperature, this is your second flaw in your cook (the first one is that you do not really know what your grate temperature was). The internal temperature on a flat is useless. Also, taking tips on how to cook a packer and then doing a flat will lead to problems. 4. Even a flat, cook hotter. Run your cooker at 275F grate temperature, it will be fine. Cook it until the color is a nice mahogany, probe it, most likely it will be hard. This is fine. Foil it, adding 1/4 cup of beef broth, and put it back onto the pit. Note, at this time, give the packet a squeeze, it will feel hard, remember this. After a couple of hours, stick it with your thermo, is it soft? hard? if you have a Thermapen, take a temperature. If it is not soft, note the temp. If it is 165F, you have at least another hour before checking, if it is 180F, then you should check in 30 minutes. If it is 195F, then check in 15 to 20 minutes. Also, squeeze the packet at this time, if it is soft, then you are close and should be checking every 20 minutes, if it is hard, regardless of IT, let it run for an hour. A flat that is done will have give, even under a couple of layers of foil or paper. 5. A flat will never jiggle. __________________ "perhaps...but then again...maybe not..." careful there son, those ribs are boiling hot... \_\|_/ (='.'=) Here there be bunnies... (")_(")ooo Pacific Rim BBQ Bob's Brew and Que

11-28-2012, 09:20 AM	#17
smokainmuskoka Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 08-30-11 Location: Huntsville, Ontario, Canada Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The other trip I've seen here on the forum is injecting the brisket with some canola oil to help keep it moist. I haven't tried it, but it's something to consider. Also injecting with beef broth(thanks for the reminder Skidder) is an option.

11-28-2012, 10:38 AM	#18
ITT 250 Got Wood. Join Date: 08-09-12 Location: Toronto, CDN. Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I did inject it but only with a bit of beef broth. If you go back in the posts, I checked the temp on the grill after 5 hrs, it was 180F on my Thermoworx. I took it off and put it in the cooler and wrapped it. I checked the board again and after reading some more posts, I decided to keep the foil on but put it back on the grill. I left it there for another 2 hrs. It was only 160F. I then put it in the cooler for an hour thinking it will rise. stayed 160F. Unwrapped, and put back on cooker for 10min just to Bark it up a bit.

11-28-2012, 11:03 AM	#20
willbird Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 06-30-12 Location: MOntpelier,OH Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The story is as I understand it, undercooking causes more dry briskets than over cooking. Did it probe like butter at 180f internal ? Bill

12-01-2012, 07:23 AM	#21
ITT 250 Got Wood. Join Date: 08-09-12 Location: Toronto, CDN. Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	No not really. That's why I got confused. And the guys where saying that doesn't happen to flats. The meat was so lean I couldn't even see and fat other than the cap.

12-01-2012, 04:18 PM	#25
willbird Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 06-30-12 Location: MOntpelier,OH Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Also if like many of us you DO pull one too early....you can put it in a roasting pan and cover that with foil (I put the rack in the roaster and sprinkled some maggi seasoning on top) then roast at 225 for an hour or so and it will salvage it so you can eat it :-).