Judging Rings and Garnish

[jmoney7269]

Originally Posted by Fat Woody

Anyone who says they can spot a fake smoke ring needs a little re-education; this one (which admittedly looks fake) is completely natural - that's all I'm sayin'. I don't want to be judged down for something that is someone's "perception" of reality...

Amen brotha! I'm not there to get judged on perception, Im there to take home
Money Because my chit tastes good!!! No BBQ snob here! And any of to that think that you have the right to judge down on a smoke ring when your directed not to judge on at all to begin with, you definitely need some
Re education on morals also. Teams spend $1000's on cookoffs. Don't cost you a thing to judge

[SDAR]

CTBA? How many rib entries you turn in to get that 1st ribs? Told us two on the other forum?

[SDAR]

That one trophy up on the right looks like a bowling trophy. Them don't count for BBQ.

[SDAR]

This is too rich! Hey Craig, show him the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo GC. Or hey that Pitmaker Vault on the trailer GC trophy. That was a good one.

[rolfejr]

I know it's early but are those trophies made of empty beer cans?
God bless Texas.

[RangerJ]

Well in the military we called it Situational Awareness... Pontification about "salad" in a box and sauce covering up the Q on a 95% KCBS board would demonstrate a lack of it.

Well, asking Craig if he has any Major GC's does that as well also. Especially as he's on his way to the Royal where I do believe he is in the Invitational.

As a native Texan, I've got my prejudice's about where I think the best Que comes from and I don't really care what other people think. But I hate to see comments like this.

Originally Posted by chrisnjenn

Gotta laugh at these Texans sometimes.

I stand by my statement that you can't judge how an organization is run or its standards of judging if you never cook in it. Which by the way, Sam's is coming back to Texas next year. Jump in, the water is fine.

[jmoney7269]

Originally Posted by SDAR

CTBA? How many rib entries you turn in to get that 1st ribs? Told us two on the other forum?

2, one dry, one glazed. Not my problem I used the allowances to my advantage.

Originally Posted by SDAR

That one trophy up on the right looks like a bowling trophy. Them don't count for BBQ.

Dude I got so many trophies from cookoffs, bowling, archery, and Billiards I sometimes debate throwing them all away and starting over. Good catch though I didn't even notice it

[jmoney7269]

Originally Posted by RangerJ

Well in the military we called it Situational Awareness... Pontification about "salad" in a box and sauce covering up the Q on a 95% KCBS board would demonstrate a lack of it.

Well, asking Craig if he has any Major GC's does that as well also. Especially as he's on his way to the Royal where I do believe he is in the Invitational.

we got our invitational papers also,just declined after we figured we would spend over $1k in gas, and they wanted like another $1k to upgrade our spot to hold our RV. We considered it, now we are not. We have no sponsors like Pitmaker and texas pepper jellies do to go to an event and cook All that food and give it all away. I go there to cook my food, take a walk of fame or take the walk of shame. Done plenty of both.

[Fat Woody]

So...this thread has been derailed to Crazy Town; back to the OP's point, obviously smoke rings and garnish enter into the score with some judges, even if it's just at a subconscious level, as was so eloquently stated by Brother Landarc.

BTW - nice first post PP21! You may have started a Texas civil war

[JS-TX]

Originally Posted by jmoney7269

And any of to that think that you have the right to judge down on a smoke ring when your directed not to judge on at all to begin with, you definitely need some
Re education on morals also. Teams spend $1000's on cookoffs. Don't cost you a thing to judge

Who and what bbq org says to ignore a smoke ring or no smoke ring? Like I've said BEFORE, Tx. gulf coast and IBCA don't even mention it. The only thing on appearance they say is "Does it look appealing, BBQ you want to eat?" A fake looking smoke ring that overshadows the overall appearance is not very appetizing IMO. But if your chit is good then you have nothing to worry about (re-read what I've already posted) and why focus on a smoke ring anyway? You keep saying judges are told to ignore it anyway. Don't get pissed, just keep doing what you are doing, most judges don't know you can fake a smoke ring.

[Jorge]

Originally Posted by jmoney7269

Let me refine my words a little. That was when I first strarted experimenting With TQ a while back. If you put a thick coat of rub on, you will get a minuscule smoke ring when cooking H&F. Furthermore half of my comps are unsanctioned and the right use of TQ helps. It's not my problem people aren't serious about BBQ as I am. Further than that, if we weren't technologically advanced as we are now, and someone didn't spill the beans, you would still be scoring brisket with a pretty smoke ring high. Hell, this one was cooked in the oven!

And in just sayin BRO that if your a judge and your marking down scores on something your told not to judge on in the first place, I'm glad I don't compete in your sanctioning body. Down here there is no appearance Because appearance makes no difference on how it tastes, makes no difference on how tender it is, makes no difference on the overall enjoyment of the meat being sampled by the judge.

Originally Posted by jmoney7269

How about this one? Chappel hill VFD grand champs SANCTIONED! 1st ribs out of 108 entrys! 3rd chicken 9th brisket and we used TQ on the damn thang! Oh gotta throw in 2nd chefs choice. That serious enough for you bud? Where are your major GC trophys? I got plenty of them? Remember I only been a contributing member for a few months on here and txbbqrub forum.




The same rib that won that won the Bellville country music festival 38 teams non sanctioned


What else do you wanna see? Oh I got more
140 teams. Used my Famous rib glaze and bean recipe. 1st beans btw which were a core Categeory


Washington county fair king of coals sanctioned. 28 out of 30 possible sanctioned 1st ribs and brisket, 3rd chicken


Now that we got that out of the way of me and our team Being crappy cooks Because half of our cookoffs are non sanctioned. What now! Are we worthy now ti give our opinion on what good bbq is? I obviously know what the heck I'm talkin about. If I missed something, please fill me in!

Originally Posted by jmoney7269

Amen brotha! I'm not there to get judged on perception, Im there to take home
Money Because my chit tastes good!!! No BBQ snob here! And any of to that think that you have the right to judge down on a smoke ring when your directed not to judge on at all to begin with, you definitely need some
Re education on morals also. Teams spend $1000's on cookoffs. Don't cost you a thing to judge

Originally Posted by jmoney7269

2, one dry, one glazed. Not my problem I used the allowances to my advantage.


Dude I got so many trophies from cookoffs, bowling, archery, and Billiards I sometimes debate throwing them all away and starting over. Good catch though I didn't even notice it

Originally Posted by jmoney7269

we got our invitational papers also,just declined after we figured we would spend over $1k in gas, and they wanted like another $1k to upgrade our spot to hold our RV. We considered it, now we are not. We have no sponsors like Pitmaker and texas pepper jellies do to go to an event and cook All that food and give it all away. I go there to cook my food, take a walk of fame or take the walk of shame. Done plenty of both.

Counselor, I think you are going to have a hard time being certified as a expert witness in the court of public opinion. The more you told us how good you are, the more difficult it became for me to swallow.

You participated in taking this conversation from garnish and smoke ring as it relates to scores, to lack of sponsorship for yourself and what others receive. Besides the fact that it's not relevant the argument borders on nonsense. Texana, aka Craig Sharry, aka Texas Pepper Jelly is paying his own expenses including the pits on the back of his trailer. He had the same choice you did, and chose to spend the money. I've got no clue what the deal is with Pitmaker, because it's not my place to ask George or Victor about their financial arrangements nor do I care. They've put themselves in the position to have the funds to do it, it wasn't given to them.

You received the most input, that was not supportive, from fellow Texans? As a Texan that has cooked both in Texas and KCBS I've formed a general opinion based on your posts in this thread and others....beginning with your desire for a showdown with Johnny Trigg. Opinion, stated as fact does not fly with many members of the jury. Until that changes I'm afraid that I'll perceive you as "J Let Me Tell You How Good I Am Money". Talk less, cook more, let your results speak for themselves and that experience will translate to credibility.

[Jorge]

Originally Posted by JS-TX

Who and what bbq org says to ignore a smoke ring or no smoke ring? Like I've said BEFORE, Tx. gulf coast and IBCA don't even mention it. The only thing on appearance they say is "Does it look appealing, BBQ you want to eat?" A fake looking smoke ring that overshadows the overall appearance is not very appetizing IMO. But if your chit is good then you have nothing to worry about (re-read what I've already posted) and why focus on a smoke ring anyway? You keep saying judges are told to ignore it anyway. Don't get pissed, just keep doing what you are doing, most judges don't know you can fake a smoke ring.

KCBS. The reason is that it can be artificially created using TQ and similar products.

[Alexa RnQ]

Oh my, oh my. We recently heard a great deal of similar talk in Texas, at an invitational rib contest. "Salad" was not allowed. We were told repeatedly that "if it needs sauce, give it a toss". Having never cooked in Texas before, we of course knew that Texas is the only *real* bbq, and that Texans *know* good BBQ.

Imagine our surprise when we won.

[kwas68]

Back to the OP...
I'm a comp noob with no credentials to speak of. The garnish issue is totally hypocritical, IM lowly O. I'm of the understanding that the garnish, or lack thereof, shouldn't affect a cook's score. However, when you scan the criticisms on this site along with BBQcritic, almost all will mention the garnish. How can a judge comment on the garnish if they were supposed to ignore it? I see comments like too low, too sparse in an area, not an even "frame," etc. For something that shouldn't matter, it gets a lot of attention. It is obvious, to me anyway, that judges are looking extensively at the garnish. It takes effort for a judge to determine if your garnish "frame" is uneven, for example. If a judge is actively comparing the size of the top row garnish to the bottom, he/she is burning calories on criteria that shouldn't influence their opinion. I have a hard time believing that a judge who has evaluated the garnish to this level of detail is just going to discard his evaluation. It WILL influence his score.

So the message that garnish is immaterial is not resonating with the judges. I think that this falls on KCBS training.

Knowing this, a cook can whine/bitch/complain (sorta like I did above) and lose, or adapt and pretend that you are being scored on presentation and not appearance. Because you are.

[landarc]

The reality is, you get so little time to really judge a boxes appearance, it walks by you, and sometimes rather quickly, maybe a few seconds to see the entire thing. If the meat really rocks, it hardly matters what the greenery looks like, as the judges (all meat eaters) will be looking at the meat. If the meat is blah, then their eyes will wander. But, sometimes, despite your best efforts, the meat does not really rock, that is when a few points, or fractions thereof, just might lift you up a spot or two.

And you can control garnish absolutely with some preparation. There is rarely a reason for a bad garnish. Meat appearance is much tougher. Since the rules allow garnish, and really, you pretty much have to do it, why not work at getting the easiest thing to control right. I happen to think it looks nice to have it in there. Although, show me a box filled with really nice ribs or great chicken, I won't see the greenery at all.