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Unread 09-12-2012, 10:45 AM   #61
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Too bad that your pictures are so small (640x480 should be made the minimum viewing size). I have to ask some more:
  1. So you did not trim the fat cap at all (the downside in the two pictures of the first row)?
  2. Did you smoke it fat cap facing downwards?
  3. The fat cap completely disappeared during the cook (I can't see any fat in the picture showing the slices)?
  4. What influence does resting at 170°F in an oven have compared to resting in a cooler?
  5. For such a simple rub, does it make a difference which kind of salt is used (there is no Kosher Salt available here, we only have coarse or fine grained sea salt and fine grained saline salt, they all are iodized)?
This will be my third brisket in total this Sunday. My first brisket had an unpleasant layer of fat on the fat cap side on the resulting product due to the lack of trimming, the second was trimmed as good as possible, and the resulting product overcooked and slightly dry. I read a lot about fat cap up / down and trimming to a fat layer of about 1/4", so I am not sure how to proceed with my third brisket cook.

I have always only used the cooler for resting so far, so it may be interesting if resting in a heated oven makes a difference.

And again the question of the used salt. I guess the coarse sea salt is a little more coarse than Kosher Salt, my wife used it at the beginning, but exchanged it with simple fine grained saline salt (= table salt), because it sticks better to the meat (rub applied dry only).

I am a little nervous about this cook, I really need a success with a nice moist but lean product featuring such a beautiful smoke ring as shown on your pictures (using some precious Mesquite for the very first time).
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Unread 09-12-2012, 11:11 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by This is not your pork! View Post
Too bad that your pictures are so small (640x480 should be made the minimum viewing size). I have to ask some more:

The pics seem to be fine for me to see, maybe it's your screen? I know that when we upgraded our computer, the larger screen made smaller pics look bigger than the old one. Also, they're that size because it seems that if theay are much larger than that, it takes longer for the forums servier to download them. I've tried to upload larger pics, but it takes a while and they seem to be so larger it makes a scroll bar at the bottom of the screen necessary to see the whole picture.
  1. So you did not trim the fat cap at all (the downside in the two pictures of the first row)?
I did trim the fat cap a very little bit only where I felt hard fat. If it felt soft, I left it alone. Reason being, I cook fat side down and the fat acts like a heat shield.
  1. Did you smoke it fat cap facing downwards?
I did cook it fat side down because my heat source on this cooker is directly under the cooking chamber, and the bottom of the cooker is always hotter than the top because of a heat plate I have in the bottom of it.
  1. The fat cap completely disappeared during the cook (I can't see any fat in the picture showing the slices)?
The fat is there, it's just underneath the slices. I really should have turned the brisket over so I sliced through the fat first though. It doesn't completely dissapear during the cook, but a lot of it does cook off.
  1. What influence does resting at 170°F in an oven have compared to resting in a cooler?
I got the idea of resting it in the oven from Aaron Frankln. However, after further research, I learned that he holds his in a 200* box versus 170*. What I gather this does is that it keeps the meat in the jiggly state so it doesn't firm back up while resting. I would say that if you're going to only rest for an hour before eating, a cooler rest would be fine. But for longer periods, I now understand why a 200* oven is the way to go.
  1. For such a simple rub, does it make a difference which kind of salt is used (there is no Kosher Salt available here, we only have coarse or fine grained sea salt and fine grained saline salt, they all are iodized)?
I thin that the type of salt does matter. The larger the crystals, the more you will need, the smaller the crystals, then the less you will need. For example, Morton Kosher salt here is a finer salt than Diamond Crystal Kosher. If you look at the salt content per serving, Morton is much higher than Diamond Crystal. This is mainly due to the fact that you can fit more Mortan Kosher salt in the same sized measuring device than you can Diamond Crystal. So, if you use a finer grain salt, just use say 1/3 of a cup versus a 1/2 cup. As far as being iodized, I would try and stay away from it if you can. Iodized salt has a tendency to leave a medicinal after taste in my experience. You guys don't have any natural sea salt that you can grind yourself?

This will be my third brisket in total this Sunday. My first brisket had an unpleasant layer of fat on the fat cap side on the resulting product due to the lack of trimming, the second was trimmed as good as possible, and the resulting product overcooked and slightly dry. I read a lot about fat cap up / down and trimming to a fat layer of about 1/4", so I am not sure how to proceed with my third brisket cook.

I have always only used the cooler for resting so far, so it may be interesting if resting in a heated oven makes a difference.

And again the question of the used salt. I guess the coarse sea salt is a little more coarse than Kosher Salt, my wife used it at the beginning, but exchanged it with simple fine grained saline salt (= table salt), because it sticks better to the meat (rub applied dry only).

I am a little nervous about this cook, I really need a success with a nice moist but lean product featuring such a beautiful smoke ring as shown on your pictures (using some precious Mesquite for the very first time).

If you'd like, PM me your e-mail address and I can resize the pictures larger and send them directly to you if that will help.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 12:25 PM   #63
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That's strange, I just took a look again, your pics are all 500x375, which is rather small. I don't know if it's because you used the forum attachment function, because I use photobucket therefor.

About the fat cap downwards, I have a foiled clay saucer in a foiled water pan without water in my WSM acting as a heatsink and -diffuser, so a fat layer as protection is not necessary in that case. Trimming the fat cap allows the smoke ring to also form on the downwards facing side, but I am not sure if trimming the fat cap has any impact on the juiciness of the resulting product.

I'll go shopping tomorrow, so I'll look out for un-iodized salt, but the major concern is the quantity depending on crystal size due to the lack of a conversion table for the salt I can get here. Could you tell me the weight of 1/2 cup Kosher Salt? Measuring in cups makes it difficult to compare, so measuring in weight is the solution to eliminate any error.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 01:24 PM   #64
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I do use the forum photo function. Like I said, PM me your e-mail and I will gladly send you larger pictures. I'm just not sure why they appear smaller on one screen to the next?

As far as the salt, I just measured it out. 1/2 cup of DIamond Crystal Kosher (larger grain) weighs 85 grams and a 1/2 cup of Morton Kosher (smaller grain) weighs 150 grams. So, like I said, crystal size will affect how salty the same measurement as far as volume is.

I wouldn't trim the fat cap down to leave any less than 1/8 to 1/4 inch of it on the meat.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 01:32 PM   #65
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Is this better?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 004.jpg (47.2 KB, 356 views)
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 005.jpg (59.6 KB, 358 views)
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 006.jpg (62.6 KB, 357 views)
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 007.jpg (72.2 KB, 356 views)
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 008.jpg (72.9 KB, 355 views)
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 009.jpg (54.9 KB, 353 views)
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 010.jpg (75.9 KB, 352 views)
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 011.jpg (63.7 KB, 352 views)
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 013.jpg (75.2 KB, 351 views)
File Type: jpg Brisket Nirvana and Peppers 014.jpg (58.5 KB, 352 views)
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Unread 09-12-2012, 01:46 PM   #66
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"What influence does resting at 170°F in an oven have compared to resting in a cooler?

I got the idea of resting it in the oven from Aaron Frankln. However, after further research, I learned that he holds his in a 200* box versus 170*. What I gather this does is that it keeps the meat in the jiggly state so it doesn't firm back up while resting. I would say that if you're going to only rest for an hour before eating, a cooler rest would be fine. But for longer periods, I now understand why a 200* oven is the way to go."


That's interesting. I wonder how much of a factor this is. I think I remember seeing Pitmaster T have his briskets resting in a 190 degree oven for like 6 hours. Is there something about the cooling of that makes the flat all dry?
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Unread 09-12-2012, 01:50 PM   #67
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Nope, the cooling allows the proteins to contract, which means the brisket will, overall, become a little tougher. A moist flat will become a slightly chewier moist flat. Same as for the point, with the added non-bonus of coagulated fat.

Keeping the meat in a heated cambro or similar device at 170F, has the benefit of keeping it at serving temperature and still not cooking it. If you have it at 200F, then it will stay there and not cook further. It was not uncommon, back before heated holding cabinets, for cooks to keep the briskets piled up on a 'warm' shelf in a cooker, where they just sat at around 200F for many hours.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 02:21 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaQue View Post
I do use the forum photo function. Like I said, PM me your e-mail and I will gladly send you larger pictures. I'm just not sure why they appear smaller on one screen to the next?
The new upload shows the pictures as 800x600, but it seems now the former 500x375 were resized making the picture not showing any more details (no need for another try). I'm just curious, because I use a batch resize function to process all pictures taken with my camera to get equal 640x480 throughout all my pics I upload to my photobucket account. Those JPGs have a small file size and display well in a forum thread with enough details for that purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaQue View Post
As far as the salt, I just measured it out. 1/2 cup of DIamond Crystal Kosher (larger grain) weighs 85 grams and a 1/2 cup of Morton Kosher (smaller grain) weighs 150 grams. So, like I said, crystal size will affect how salty the same measurement as far as volume is.
So which of the two did you use for that simplified rub?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaQue View Post
I wouldn't trim the fat cap down to leave any less than 1/8 to 1/4 inch of it on the meat.
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 02:26 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landarc View Post
Keeping the meat in a heated cambro or similar device at 170F, has the benefit of keeping it at serving temperature and still not cooking it. If you have it at 200F, then it will stay there and not cook further. It was not uncommon, back before heated holding cabinets, for cooks to keep the briskets piled up on a 'warm' shelf in a cooker, where they just sat at around 200F for many hours.
Sorry, I still don't get it.

So what would be the preferred / better method, to keep it at 200°F, 170°F or let slowly cool down wrapped up in a cooler?
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Unread 09-12-2012, 02:34 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by This is not your pork! View Post
Sorry, I still don't get it.

So what would be the preferred / better method, to keep it at 200°F, 170°F or let slowly cool down wrapped up in a cooler?
Well according to the above research we're talking about. If you want jiggling brisket ala Franklin's a 200 degree hold is best.

I'm sure if you want to win an KCBS contests jello brisket ain't gonna fly.


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Unread 09-12-2012, 02:48 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by This is not your pork! View Post
Sorry, I still don't get it.

So what would be the preferred / better method, to keep it at 200°F, 170°F or let slowly cool down wrapped up in a cooler?
There is no one method. And my answer is typically, you should try them all and have all of the tools. But, I get that you are not in the U.S. and a packer is something rare for you.

If I was running a restaurant, I would do the 200F, as I want to be able to hold the brisket in an optimum condition for as long as I can. And I would have the ability to do that precisely with a warming cabinet.

But, for personal consumption, where I was serving within 3 hours of pulling, I would just wrap in towels and go into a preheated cooler.

I have done the oven at both 170F and 200F and both worked great. If you need to hold it for a longer time, then the oven might be a great option.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 05:22 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by This is not your pork! View Post
The new upload shows the pictures as 800x600, but it seems now the former 500x375 were resized making the picture not showing any more details (no need for another try). I'm just curious, because I use a batch resize function to process all pictures taken with my camera to get equal 640x480 throughout all my pics I upload to my photobucket account. Those JPGs have a small file size and display well in a forum thread with enough details for that purpose.

I just use a cheap point and shoot camera. Not sure how to get the details out of it your looking for, neither am I sure what more details in the pics you're after? I made them larger because you said they were to small before. I run them through an editing program my wife uses. I believe it's Correll Paint Shop Pro or some thing like that. Maybe she can help me figure out how to sharpen the picture quality when she get's home from work?

So which of the two did you use for that simplified rub?

I use the courser grained Diamond Crystal.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
Hope this cleared a few things up for ya.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 06:10 PM   #73
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Is that your Shun Ken Onion in the last pic?
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Unread 09-12-2012, 07:19 PM   #74
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Is that your Shun Ken Onion in the last pic?

No, that's the standard "Classic Shun". Excaliber only comes out for special occasions or for very large pieces of meat!!!
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Unread 09-12-2012, 08:52 PM   #75
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I have reverted to the KISS method with my bbq and I could not be happier. I don't even foil anymore and just leave the UDS closed for the duration of the trip. I wrap only in butcher paper and use simple rubs. Saves money, effort, and increases the quality. Great write up and pron. Glad it worked out for you
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