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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 06-21-2012, 01:41 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitmaster T View Post

Patio... you know I have mad respect for your skills BUT Please Read above.... Quotes from above are in bold

1. You think you are going to pursuade me I am anything but a "King," for essentially I am one, as Henry the IV was in Luigi Pirandello's, Enrico the IV. If you know what this refers to or at least are the type of intellect that would wiki this so you could appear to know what you are talking about then you have the intellectual qualifications to participate because it is a hell of a reference to what I do.

Check out the play... specifically ask yourself... who was the King really, did he know he was the King, Did he know if they Knew he was King or not.


"So who is this edict for? If you are struggling with a meat and/or have tanked your scores, and/or are totally new and want a starting point or re-reference point, I say this might be the law for you."

You are an expert pitmaster patio.... does it say this is for expert pitmasters?

Over and Over again.... not the point.... not saying its the only way.

Also of note, quoted from above:

"that these laws are intended, once again, for the novice to new meats"

and

" that once the meat is mastered at the entry temp suggested, it is ENTIRELY fine to tweak to either side in both time and temp and even rub, slather, or artifical injections, to get to where the individual desires."

So once again... no matter who may come in trying to be diplomatic and say "there is no one way to cook BBQ" that is not what the "Edict" is about. Especially not coming from a guy that makes an awesome brisket like Patiodaddio, using many of the same methods.
Dude, I'm not mad at you. You're entitled your opinions and "edicts", but I
just think edicts in BBQ are ridiculous.

It's not personal.

*singing*


John
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Unread 06-21-2012, 02:06 AM   #32
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Must have been my saying I had "mad respect for your skills" and "you are an expert pitmaster" that makes "an awesome brisket" that made you think I thought you were mad at me, huh?

Well that's cool if you want to come and "mess up my salad bar" but if someone were to ask you how you cook your brisket.... I have seen... you Patio, have one method.. you teach one method...sort of like an "edict." If you started showing people 14 different ways to cook the same piece of meat.... well then, I hope you get the picture. Bigabyte has an Edict, Boshizzle is formulating one, Trigg has one, Mixon, there may be minor evolutions but theirs is an ending point, generally, mine is a starting point... what is the easiest way to quickly master a style then go on and make your own expression.

I have given the caveats... that there are many ways to cook BBQ, this is the best starting point... thereby, my Edict, not yours. I think not understanding that is "ridiculous" but then again... I am Pirandello's King. :-)

The title of the thread says "Pitmaster's Final Edict on BBQ temps" not "THE Edict on BBQ"

And not knowing that or reading that before calling it "ridiculous" is what I call "ridiculous."

And Dude, I ain't mad at ya either.
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Unread 06-21-2012, 02:40 AM   #33
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For the record, I have never cooked a brisket the same way twice -- even
in competition. Seriously, I wing each and every one of them. Sure, I have
some basic guidelines that I generally follow, but I don't "teach" any way
of cooking a brisket.

The post that you mentioned was just one of my many ways of cooking a
brisket. I captured and published it as a how-to to get folks going on their
own hot & fast journey. My hope is that it will give them a good footing
and help them to start coloring outside the lines. In that respect I think
our goals are similar.

I think I'm just getting hung up on the word "edict".

e·dict/ˈēdikt/
Noun: An official order or proclamation.

John

P.S. Oh, and I am miles and miles away from being an expert pitmaster, or
an expert at anything, really. I'm just a duffer that's on the same quest
for the same holy grail that we're all looking for.
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Unread 06-21-2012, 04:53 AM   #34
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Can't we all just get along? Seriously, I have a lot of respect for both of you guys, and both of you bring a lot of bbq goodness to the brethern. each in his own way. Patio Daddio is pretty much straight-forward and direct and Pitmaster T brings it like no other IMO. While I agree there are many ways to skin a cat (in this case brisket), we each prefer ours skin't out a certain way. That's cool. To each his own. While I consider myself to be a decent brisket cooker, I know I have much to learn and so my quest for brisket nirvana is never ending. I am a brethern member because I've found that you can attain much knowledge by studying other peoples techniques, methods and approach to cooking great brisket. The hope is being able to shorten the learning curve to getting where I would like to be with all of my meats, not just brisket. You guys, and others (Boshizzle, Bbq Bandit, Lakedog) to name a few, are why I come to the brethern for inspiration and ideas, knowledge. Pitmasters are egotistical and proud and have a right to be. They are also opinionated as you two have shown. I like that.
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Unread 06-21-2012, 04:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Thanks!

Spoken like a guy who has not come to realize what a dick I am.
We're all dicks in our own special way
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Unread 06-21-2012, 05:04 AM   #36
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I'm not...


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Unread 06-21-2012, 09:41 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPig View Post
Can't we all just get along? Seriously, I have a lot of respect for both of you guys, and both of you bring a lot of bbq goodness to the brethern. each in his own way. Patio Daddio is pretty much straight-forward and direct and Pitmaster T brings it like no other IMO. While I agree there are many ways to skin a cat (in this case brisket), we each prefer ours skin't out a certain way. That's cool. To each his own. While I consider myself to be a decent brisket cooker, I know I have much to learn and so my quest for brisket nirvana is never ending. I am a brethern member because I've found that you can attain much knowledge by studying other peoples techniques, methods and approach to cooking great brisket. The hope is being able to shorten the learning curve to getting where I would like to be with all of my meats, not just brisket. You guys, and others (Boshizzle, Bbq Bandit, Lakedog) to name a few, are why I come to the brethern for inspiration and ideas, knowledge. Pitmasters are egotistical and proud and have a right to be. They are also opinionated as you two have shown. I like that.
An EDICT on the EDICT....

Don't take the personna too seriously... I really don't... and people thinking I do turns people off.


Well Red.. thanks SERIOUSLY!!!!, and I am sure Patio will thank you too. I think there was a bit of a problem in the last few weeks, one I stand by and will not go on about (and probably expected some people to part on sides) and the other unintentional. Let me explain, to both Patio and everyone else.

Patio has some respect for me I think, he shows it either because he think I deserve some or because he is a gentleman, and I have a lot of respect for him. BBQ mentoring is a Spectrum... and well, we have quite the rainbow in here.

I think I always did things in a brash way in here... not in public though, I am actually silly, but much more diplomatic in my public affairs, but I sort of stepped away from the brethren for a bit. I was talking to Phil about this. When I came back, I pretty much the same person... doing the same things, but the makeup of the forum had changed quickly this year. Good thing. So I was un aware of how many new people came in.

So the audience I thought was still here, a good portion in on the "joke," was unknowingly disprorportionally displaced... well with people that don't really have the time to figure it out. So my "schtick," as Jorge would call it, got in the way.

We can argue about it, some brethren will come in here and sort of take jabs because there may be blood in the water, but I can deal with that. I appreciate BOTH patio's angle and your angle and appreciate a guy (You Red) that can glean something from each of us brethren.... (Patio being Able, Myself Cain).

One last "for instance." Some would look at the intro post above and go.... " he thinks he is a farking King.... WTF, look at that, I am moving on, he is no King.... screw this guy." Well I have said many times... that guy IS the guy I think should move on. I have stated this several times as my motivation for using "the funk code"... that I will give some good tips away .... but you have to work on it. You have to open your eyes.

So allow me to post this.... so its easier to "get."

I compared myself to Piradello's King Henry the IV.

IN THE PLAY!!!!!

Henry the IV is a man (an actor by profession) who went mad after being knocked off his horse during a masquerade. At the time he was playing the part of Henry IV, and his delusion for over twelve years after the fall was that he was King Henry IV of Germany during the eleventh century. He has been placed in a "castle" with four valets, or "private counselors", all paid for by his nephew Di Nolli.

The play opens in the throne room with Berthold, a new valet who has just been hired, learning from the other three valets. Berthold is being taught everything he needs to know in order to work for Henry IV and take care of the madman. There are two portraits next to the throne, pictures of Henry IV and the Marchioness Matilda (known as Donna Matilda). The pictures were done during the masquerade nearly twenty years earlier while Henry IV and Donna Matilda were dressed in their costumes.

Donna Matilda, her daughter Frida, Frida's fiance Di Nolli (who is also Henry IV's nephew), Donna Matilda's lover Belcredi, and a Doctor for psychotherapy all arrive at the castle. They are there in the hopes of curing Henry IV of his madness. Soon after their arrival the valets convince Donna Matilda, the Doctor, and Belcredi that it would be a good idea to visit Henry IV. They dress up in costumes and meet him. Henry speaks to them, but as far as they are concerned he is mad and so they do not pay attention to anything he says.

After the meeting with Henry IV, Donna Matilda is convinced that he recognized her. Both Belcredi and the Doctor try to dissuade her from this notion. Frida and Di Nolli have left to pick up the dress that Donna Matilda is seen wearing in the portrait, and they arrive soon thereafter. Frida enters wearing the dress; she looks identical to her mother's portrait.

Donna Matilda and the Doctor re-enter Henry's room in order to placate him and make him act calmer. After they leave, Henry turns to his valets and tells them that he is tired of acting. They look at him in surprise, and are even more shocked when he reveals that he is perfectly lucid. Henry has been playing the part of the madman for over eight years, having woken out of his madness after twelve years. He and the valets sit around a table and Henry tells them about what it means to be mad, claiming that madmen always speak the truth.

Meanwhile, the Doctor has set up a trap in order to shock Henry IV out of his madness. The portraits have been replaced by Frida and Di Nolli, dressed up to look like the Marchioness and Henry IV. Henry leaves his valets and starts to walk towards his bedroom, passing through the throne room on the way. Frida calls out to him, but she soon becomes frightened and starts to scream. The Doctor, Belcredi, and Donna Matilda all rush in to support her.

Henry watches this scene in amazement. Finally Belcredi and Donna Matilda tell Frida that Henry is cured, and that he has only been acting. It turns out that the valets came to them and confided everything that Henry had secretly told them. Henry explains that after waking up twelve years after the accident, he realized that he was more comfortable playing Henry IV than dealing with changes in the outer world. He therefore pretended to be Henry IV for over eight years.

Henry then discusses the variable nature of reality with them. He explains that since he is aware what mask he is wearing, that of Henry IV, and since he is also aware that other people also wear masks, he is not mad. He explains that madness is when someone wears a mask but is not aware of it. Belcredi comments that according to Henry IV, they are all mad.
After discussing the differences between his reality in which time has stopped and their reality in which it has not, Henry IV goes over to Frida and grabs hold of her. He starts laughing like a madman while hugging her. When the others try to free her, he orders his valets to restrain them. Only Belcredi is able to break free. Belcredi lunges forward, but Henry pulls out his sword and stabs him. In shock, the others carry Belcredi offstage where a loud cry from Donna Matilda indicates that he has died. Henry gather his valets around him and comments that they will now have to stay in the castle forever.

This type of dualism and form is something I have always had as a personna here. Its fun... but to some a drag at times. I will endeavor, after Phil let me in on the sheer numbers of people coming here these days... new people... I will seek to remember that. You guys just remember the play.... that as it is revealed, Henry has recovered from his madness long ago and is well aware he is not actually King... LOL, just plays one on the forum.
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Unread 06-21-2012, 09:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitmaster T View Post
An EDICT on the EDICT....

Don't take the personna too seriously... I really don't... and people thinking I do turns people off.


Well Red.. thanks SERIOUSLY!!!!, and I am sure Patio will thank you too. I think there was a bit of a problem in the last few weeks, one I stand by and will not go on about (and probably expected some people to part on sides) and the other unintentional. Let me explain, to both Patio and everyone else.

Patio has some respect for me I think, he shows it either because he think I deserve some or because he is a gentleman, and I have a lot of respect for him. BBQ mentoring is a Spectrum... and well, we have quite the rainbow in here.

I think I always did things in a brash way in here... not in public though, I am actually silly, but much more diplomatic in my public affairs, but I sort of stepped away from the brethren for a bit. I was talking to Phil about this. When I came back, I pretty much the same person... doing the same things, but the makeup of the forum had changed quickly this year. Good thing. So I was un aware of how many new people came in.

So the audience I thought was still here, a good portion in on the "joke," was unknowingly disprorportionally displaced... well with people that don't really have the time to figure it out. So my "schtick," as Jorge would call it, got in the way.

We can argue about it, some brethren will come in here and sort of take jabs because there may be blood in the water, but I can deal with that. I appreciate BOTH patio's angle and your angle and appreciate a guy (You Red) that can glean something from each of us brethren.... (Patio being Able, Myself Cain).

One last "for instance." Some would look at the intro post above and go.... " he thinks he is a farking King.... WTF, look at that, I am moving on, he is no King.... screw this guy." Well I have said many times... that guy IS the guy I think should move on. I have stated this several times as my motivation for using "the funk code"... that I will give some good tips away .... but you have to work on it. You have to open your eyes.

So allow me to post this.... so its easier to "get."

I compared myself to Piradello's King Henry the IV.

IN THE PLAY!!!!!

Henry the IV is a man (an actor by profession) who went mad after being knocked off his horse during a masquerade. At the time he was playing the part of Henry IV, and his delusion for over twelve years after the fall was that he was King Henry IV of Germany during the eleventh century. He has been placed in a "castle" with four valets, or "private counselors", all paid for by his nephew Di Nolli.

The play opens in the throne room with Berthold, a new valet who has just been hired, learning from the other three valets. Berthold is being taught everything he needs to know in order to work for Henry IV and take care of the madman. There are two portraits next to the throne, pictures of Henry IV and the Marchioness Matilda (known as Donna Matilda). The pictures were done during the masquerade nearly twenty years earlier while Henry IV and Donna Matilda were dressed in their costumes.

Donna Matilda, her daughter Frida, Frida's fiance Di Nolli (who is also Henry IV's nephew), Donna Matilda's lover Belcredi, and a Doctor for psychotherapy all arrive at the castle. They are there in the hopes of curing Henry IV of his madness. Soon after their arrival the valets convince Donna Matilda, the Doctor, and Belcredi that it would be a good idea to visit Henry IV. They dress up in costumes and meet him. Henry speaks to them, but as far as they are concerned he is mad and so they do not pay attention to anything he says.

After the meeting with Henry IV, Donna Matilda is convinced that he recognized her. Both Belcredi and the Doctor try to dissuade her from this notion. Frida and Di Nolli have left to pick up the dress that Donna Matilda is seen wearing in the portrait, and they arrive soon thereafter. Frida enters wearing the dress; she looks identical to her mother's portrait.

Donna Matilda and the Doctor re-enter Henry's room in order to placate him and make him act calmer. After they leave, Henry turns to his valets and tells them that he is tired of acting. They look at him in surprise, and are even more shocked when he reveals that he is perfectly lucid. Henry has been playing the part of the madman for over eight years, having woken out of his madness after twelve years. He and the valets sit around a table and Henry tells them about what it means to be mad, claiming that madmen always speak the truth.

Meanwhile, the Doctor has set up a trap in order to shock Henry IV out of his madness. The portraits have been replaced by Frida and Di Nolli, dressed up to look like the Marchioness and Henry IV. Henry leaves his valets and starts to walk towards his bedroom, passing through the throne room on the way. Frida calls out to him, but she soon becomes frightened and starts to scream. The Doctor, Belcredi, and Donna Matilda all rush in to support her.

Henry watches this scene in amazement. Finally Belcredi and Donna Matilda tell Frida that Henry is cured, and that he has only been acting. It turns out that the valets came to them and confided everything that Henry had secretly told them. Henry explains that after waking up twelve years after the accident, he realized that he was more comfortable playing Henry IV than dealing with changes in the outer world. He therefore pretended to be Henry IV for over eight years.

Henry then discusses the variable nature of reality with them. He explains that since he is aware what mask he is wearing, that of Henry IV, and since he is also aware that other people also wear masks, he is not mad. He explains that madness is when someone wears a mask but is not aware of it. Belcredi comments that according to Henry IV, they are all mad.
After discussing the differences between his reality in which time has stopped and their reality in which it has not, Henry IV goes over to Frida and grabs hold of her. He starts laughing like a madman while hugging her. When the others try to free her, he orders his valets to restrain them. Only Belcredi is able to break free. Belcredi lunges forward, but Henry pulls out his sword and stabs him. In shock, the others carry Belcredi offstage where a loud cry from Donna Matilda indicates that he has died. Henry gather his valets around him and comments that they will now have to stay in the castle forever.

This type of dualism and form is something I have always had as a personna here. Its fun... but to some a drag at times. I will endeavor, after Phil let me in on the sheer numbers of people coming here these days... new people... I will seek to remember that. You guys just remember the play.... that as it is revealed, Henry has recovered from his madness long ago and is well aware he is not actually King... LOL, just plays one on the forum.
I read you loud and clear.
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Unread 06-21-2012, 10:08 AM   #39
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I bet PT watches "Through the Wormhole" ....
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Unread 06-21-2012, 07:02 PM   #40
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I think you forgot the whole thing about butcher paper.


Just sayin'
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Unread 06-21-2012, 07:30 PM   #41
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Thank you for gathering all this information and putting it all in one place. I LOVE THIS SITE!!!
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Unread 06-21-2012, 07:59 PM   #42
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I'm going out to buy more baking soda.
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Unread 06-21-2012, 08:09 PM   #43
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I read you loud and clear.
looks like you got a posse
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Unread 06-21-2012, 08:10 PM   #44
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I appreciate the wealth of knowledge you share about how to cook good Q on here Pitmaster T, and very much enjoy the ingenious manner in which you present it. I have learned a lot from you and others on this forum, and realize I have more to learn. Learning is a large part of what makes it fun.
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Unread 06-21-2012, 08:23 PM   #45
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I'm going out to buy more baking soda.
Ah, the great mystery surrounding the Blackhawk brisket continues.
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