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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 06-10-2012, 08:44 AM   #31
Pitmaster T
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As you ponder on what makes a good brisket, when you consider all of the recipes you have seen, (THE REALLY OLD ONES) - notice how many talk of using coke, dr. pepper, juices of various kinds, coffee, even tomato....

I hear sodas, items with a vinegar base (mustards, worchestershire) and coffee quite a lot.

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pH ValueH+ Concentration Relative to Pure Water

10 000 000 battery acid
1 000 000 sulfuric acid
100 000 lemon juice, vinegar
10 000 orange juice, soda
1 000 tomato juice, acid rain
100 black coffee, bananas
10 urine, milk
1 pure water
0.1sea water, eggs
0.01baking soda
0.000 1 ammonia solution
0.000 01 soapy water
0.000 001 bleach, oven cleaner
0.000 000 1 liquid drain cleaner
The pH Scale: Some Examples
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Unread 06-10-2012, 08:49 AM   #32
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One last thing... I love Boshizzle and think he is a true visionary. I love his work and will be trying this brisket as soon as my credit is approved so I can get a brisket at the store. Please, do not even start thinking I am disrespecting my friend or his work... I pretty much have endorsed it and given reasons why it obviously works and the only problem I have is the assumption by some, NOT him, that baking soda is what is making his brisket so awesome.

So please... I know he will not think I am knocking him... so please don't let anybody else think that. He is a great treasure to the BBQ arts!
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Unread 06-10-2012, 08:51 AM   #33
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I appreciate the discussion, brethren. I have used this process before without the baking soda and had good results too. I think the high heat, drying the surface well, oil, molasses and the way the surface of the brisket is oriented to prevent the juices from pooling are the most important parts of the process. And if you can adjust the PH of the meat's surface, that helps too. I haven't experiemented with varying amounts of the baking soda, so that's something that needs to be done.
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Unread 06-10-2012, 09:17 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boshizzle View Post
I appreciate the discussion, brethren. I have used this process before without the baking soda and had good results too. I think the high heat, oil, molasses and the way the surface of the brisket is oriented to prevent the juices from pooling are the most important parts of the process. And if you can adjust the PH of the meat's surface, that helps too. I haven't experiemented with varying amounts of the baking soda, so that's something that needs to be done.
I want to make a mention about New Bransfels Smokehouse Jerky and your process for a moment.

One of the things about good jerky is that taste on the outside. The bark...

The Molasses and sugar glaze you have going on there is one of my favorite flavors in the world. I hate molasses profile in sauce beyond its balanced form in brown sugar but love it on meat.

That dang picture of the meat slathered in that glaze you got going on... My God.... that is so bedrock to traditional smoked meats I can't talk any further.

Now a moment about Baking soda. The reaction of baking soda and an acid or protein, produce a salt and a carbonic acid (which I think thus dissapates in the air as C02). Saleratus (spelling) was used to freshen meats, fish etc or also as a preventative measure to spoliage. As we all know, beef spoils from the outside in. With no refrigeration, meat would begins to spoil rather quickly. Typically you would cut off the rancid parts and after the 1840's, this stuff became more readily available in packaged form. People used this for everything. It was a great, non toxic product to use to brush teeth, wash you arsehole, clean the dishes, whiten china, and use to cook with.

One of the things I think is important about cooking with tradition is making sure you are as close to the ingredients as possible. One of the biggest reasons why my texas sheath cake is a shiznit is because I use IMPERIAL Margerine, and Coffee. That brand of cheap margerine os as close to OLEO as possible. Of course if I dial back to straight lard and burned butter and strong coffee then you taste how the trail hands made it.

Baking soda was used in damn near every meat on the outside to postpone inevitable spoiling until it was ready to use... not to increase bark. However, if it ended up making a good bark it might be because it would allow for the meat to sit longer and dry (increase in exterior protein extraction). We tend to forget this step... drying off or patting off meat.

So thats my little discourse on baking soda.
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Unread 06-10-2012, 09:26 AM   #35
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all this discussion of baking soda and ph levels and it's role in Malliard reaction, have me wondering if the baking soda is doing something else..

tenderizing... I know Asian cooking sometimes uses baking soda on their meats to tenderize.. it can help create a crispier texture on thin cuts.. but at the same time provides a different texture to the meat...

Now, with a big cut like a brisket, a few sprinkles will not penetrate deeply enough to affect the whole packer, but it could do enough to influence the surface/bark... especially if not washing off the applied baking soda before the other stuff.

Of course, maybe it's some type of leavening affect with sugars in the carbohydrates...

or maybe the saponification effect of the fats and a base like baking soda... but then we'd have a soap and the brisket doesn't look like a soap.

My head is hurting...
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Unread 06-10-2012, 09:26 AM   #36
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As far as coffee being used in a rub , I like dizzy pig red eye express . With some coarse ground pepper on top... It rocks...
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Unread 06-10-2012, 10:15 AM   #37
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Crap Pit T... Once again I can't keep up with you...can you tell us simple folk that in common terms? You're not speaking to your Mensa buddies.... :)
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Unread 06-10-2012, 10:19 AM   #38
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I'm going to go with saponification. That way the next time someone tells me to wash my mouth out with soap I will just eat brisket.
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Unread 06-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
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I'm going to go with saponification. That way the next time someone tells me to wash my mouth out with soap I will just eat brisket.

LOL
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Unread 06-10-2012, 12:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigdog View Post
Crap Pit T... Once again I can't keep up with you...can you tell us simple folk that in common terms? You're not speaking to your Mensa buddies.... :)

I can explain it better if I know what you do. I can draw parallels to whatever subject you do know. When I was Barbefunkoramaque I used to use hot sexy cousins and poozle in general to get the point across but retired that a while back. Sure would be of good use here though.
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Unread 06-11-2012, 10:47 AM   #41
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THAT LOOKS AWESOME! Nice job brother!
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Unread 06-11-2012, 10:04 PM   #42
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That looks amazing. This is why I love this site.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 08:02 PM   #43
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Another great brisket lesson...Cant wait to try it thanks
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Unread 06-13-2012, 08:53 PM   #44
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Remember, brethren, this is version 1.0. I put this post up to foster discussion. I think we have had some great discussion so far. But, this experiment is far from over.

This is the bark I started with before the BlackHawk experiments -



This is where I am at with the version 1.0 of the BlackHawk brisket -






I am seeking a way of improving that using a hot and fast method with foil.

I'm stubborn and I'm too old to want to do long cooks nowadays that cause me to lose sleep. That's the motivation behind my madness.

So, I encourage all of you to experiment and to build on what I posted. There is more than one way to skin a cat and more than one way to cook a good brisket. I hope that my post will stir some innovation.

Pitmaster T is a brisket expert. So, I value his input too. I am really liking this thread and the way the discussion is going.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 08:57 PM   #45
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yes well thanks shizzle...and I hate to bring the color of your flesh into the fray but.....
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