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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 02-04-2012, 02:59 AM   #16
Mornin' Wood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirker View Post
Im out to dinner but just tried it on my phone and a 14 ounce based on the 90/pound rule suggested 21 and not 36.

Can anyone else verify Chucks math?

Come on man. Help a brother out.

And this is a "guide". How many times has it happen when someone cooks and they don't end up serving until 10pm bcause they didnt anticipate the time of the cook?

I've seen it and it's happened to me more then once. I've even seen. Ompetition friends bonehead it.

Also Chuck there's a suggested rest in there. Perhaps you read it wrong?

And if you do it again and it's jacked up please send me a screenshot and I'll figure it out.
I like the idea, and I want it to work. Hell, I'm doing my first comp soon, so I'd love to see this work, so I could use it as a guide.
Just tried it again.
Can't send a screenshot from my phone. Sorry.

This time, I got a 26-hour cook. Better, but still too long. And yes, I realize there's a rest time (and I appreciate that being included).

Put in march 14, 2 pm as desired completion time. (Somewhat random, but simulating a comp turn-in time). It tells me to put the meat on the grill at 12 noon on march 13.

Is it just me?
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Unread 02-04-2012, 03:08 AM   #17
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Just tried it again, different dates. Same results. 21 hours from time meat is on smoker till meat is done at 180*. Then rest.
I imagine that these numbers might be true if you're smoking at 190*, but too long at 225 or 235* for a 14 brisket to be sliced.

Is it my phone? I will try my desktop in the morning.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 06:50 AM   #18
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It tells me I can cook a 12 lb brisket in 6 hours?
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Unread 02-04-2012, 06:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cireksu View Post
http://wyntk.us/smoking-times-and-temperatures

this is a pretty good rule of thumb.
This is a terrible chart for finished temps!

160 for meat loaf?
167 for thighs & turkey?
At 180 you can certainly slice brisket but it won't be edible?
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Unread 02-04-2012, 07:57 AM   #20
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So sweet - thanks for the comments and PM's so far... I've added some instructional dialogue to the site.... Check it out and let me know your thoughts.

Hey, would any of you guys be willing to share some data with me via comments on the site or via PM?

My goal is to make this as accurate as possible - within reason of course.

I totally understand that two cookers sitting side by side will cook two different pieces of meat entirely differently. I also understand that two pieces of meat weighing the same will cook differently based on their geometry, muscle/fat/moisture content, etc. So there will likely never be a perfect tool unless you put the piece through an MRI machine.. We'll try that next.

Here's the bottom line...I just want to create something cool and useful ya know... So with some guidance and some help, maybe I can make it happen. Maybe I can make something that will self-adjust automatically for larger pieces of meat, etc. You know, something that will be a little more accurate than picking up a book that will tell you that your 16 pound piece of meat will be done in 24 hours which certainly sounds a lot on the long side.

So if you are willing to take the time and open to sharing with me, I'd love as much data as I can get. And I'll use it to make improvements.

What data would help?

1) Type of meat
2) Post trim meat weight (the weight of the meat at the time it was added to the heat)
3) Average pit temp during cook & your target cooking temp
4) # of prolonged spikes (how hot did it get and how long did they hold)
5) Total cook time
6) Internal finish temp when done
7) Thoughts on how it turned out (moist, dry, brittle, crumbly, tough, total perfection on a plate)
Whether conditions
9) Cooker type

And whatever else you can think of that I'm missing. It's not even 6AM yet hre and I haven't had my coffee... It's going to be a LONG weekend of this, cooking and beer. ;)
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Unread 02-04-2012, 08:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mornin' Wood View Post
Just tried it again, different dates. Same results. 21 hours from time meat is on smoker till meat is done at 180*. Then rest.
I imagine that these numbers might be true if you're smoking at 190*, but too long at 225 or 235* for a 14 brisket to be sliced.

Is it my phone? I will try my desktop in the morning.
Thanks Chuck.. Previously you stated 36 hours which made me flip my lid. ;)

As of right now, everything is based on general "rule of thumb" for starters until I can build more data into it for larger pieces of meat. It'll happen with more data. And yet, it will always be a guide - I just want it to be useful.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 08:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbq Bubba View Post
This is a terrible chart for finished temps!
It tells me I can cook a 12 lb brisket in 6 hours?

160 for meat loaf?
167 for thighs & turkey?
At 180 you can certainly slice brisket but it won't be edible?
Dude... For a 12 pounder it suggested, 18 - where'd you get 6... ?

Hey man... I did a 180˚ finish temp brisket two weeks ago and it was off the hook...

How do you do it? Share some wisdom.... We're all here to learn, share and help the community - I think - more than we are to bash right?

It's Saturday - show the brothers some love.

Wise man once said, "Don't tell me that I'm doing it wrong - suggest as to how I might do it better."
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Unread 02-04-2012, 08:37 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mornin' Wood View Post
I like the idea, and I want it to work. Hell, I'm doing my first comp soon, so I'd love to see this work, so I could use it as a guide.
Just tried it again.
Can't send a screenshot from my phone. Sorry.

This time, I got a 26-hour cook. Better, but still too long. And yes, I realize there's a rest time (and I appreciate that being included).

Put in march 14, 2 pm as desired completion time. (Somewhat random, but simulating a comp turn-in time). It tells me to put the meat on the grill at 12 noon on march 13.

Is it just me?
No, it's not just you... ;) It's a large hunk of meat and I need to make some adjustments for larger pieces - I'm thinking pieces over 12.5 pounds I'll have to calculate a little differently and tweak it.

Personally, I don't have much experience with post trim brisket over 13 lbs so I need some more data.

I really do appreciate you playing with it though... I'll get it there. I'm committed.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 08:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirker View Post
Dude... For a 12 pounder it suggested, 18 - where'd you get 6... ?

Hey man... I did a 180˚ finish temp brisket two weeks ago and it was off the hook...

How do you do it? Share some wisdom.... We're all here to learn, share and help the community - I think - more than we are to bash right?

It's Saturday - show the brothers some love.

Wise man once said, "Don't tell me that I'm doing it wrong - suggest as to how I might do it better."
Im sure 180 brisket is great if you never had one cooked to a tender juicy 195.
Not bashing you or your system, i was bashing the posted cook temps. Are those yours?
Are you from SMF or just using his info?
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Unread 02-04-2012, 08:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbq Bubba View Post
Im sure 180 brisket is great if you never had one cooked to a tender juicy 195.
Not bashing you or your system, i was bashing the posted cook temps. Are those yours?
Are you from SMF or just using his info?
So I'm doing 4 briskets tonight for tomorrow. I'm going to take 1 to 195˚!

What do you like for Turkey and thighs? (I'm a sponge for data right now!)

And not from SMF - and I've gleaned info from about 50 different sources (books, guides like the one mentioned, posts on here and other forums, cooking sites and my own experiences - put them all into my VitaMix and turned on the spin cycle)

Perhaps that was one of the first, and everyone just copied it. I just want to make this thing kick tail ya know.. Better than something that is static...
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Unread 02-04-2012, 09:00 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mornin' Wood View Post
Just tried it again, different dates. Same results. 21 hours from time meat is on smoker till meat is done at 180*. Then rest.
I imagine that these numbers might be true if you're smoking at 190*, but too long at 225 or 235* for a 14 brisket to be sliced.

Is it my phone? I will try my desktop in the morning.
Chuck!!! I may have come up with something that will help.

I'm thinking the cutoff is about 12.5 - 13 lbs. for the calcs rough accuracy.

So I added 2 more rows for Brisket - which would accomplish something similar to doing it programatically.

If over 12.5 lbs is selected, it will use a different minute/pound factor - which looks a little more realistic - but I need to have more real data before I can say it's right.

ANYONE - got any rules of thumb data (time/pound) for larger brisket over 12.5 or 13 lbs?
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Unread 02-04-2012, 09:03 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirker View Post
No, it's not just you... ;) It's a large hunk of meat and I need to make some adjustments for larger pieces - I'm thinking pieces over 12.5 pounds I'll have to calculate a little differently and tweak it.

Personally, I don't have much experience with post trim brisket over 13 lbs so I need some more data.

I really do appreciate you playing with it though... I'll get it there. I'm committed.
You definitely have your work cut out for you....but you sound committed...good luck!!

Yeah, cooking times vary soo much....and the increase in cooking times (per weight) are not linear with the increase in weight...if you can get a calculator to get it right, you're a better mathemagician than I.

It would be helpful if you indicate (on the "simple" calculator) the expected cooking temp range...may help the cooking results be more reproducible.

And I know I've only spoke of brisket, so my focus has been vary narrow. But I agree with the other Brethren - of course it's not done till it's done...but it's a rare occasion that a brisket is "done" at 180.

Still I think this program has the potential to be an excellent guideline once it's tweaked.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 09:05 AM   #28
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Heres some feedback...

[Feb 3 10:55am]Meat should start at 38 degrees.
I would recommend letting meat at least set out while the pits warming up.
[Feb 3 10:55am]Pit temperature should be 225 degrees.
Your beginning temp should always be around 300 to make up for all the cold mas your going to be adding. Could explain your long cook times.
[Feb 3 10:55am]Begin cooking meat.
[Feb 3 7:55pm]Foil meat.
IF your going to foil, its usually done by color or temp, not time.
[Feb 4 4:55am]Remove from foil.
18 hrs???
[Feb 4 4:55am]Meat should be 180 degrees.
9 hrs in foil and it should be more like soup?
[Feb 4 4:55am]Remove meat from heat.
[Feb 4 4:55am]Set meat aside to rest.
[Feb 4 9:55am]Meat is done resting.
Your going to rest for 5 hrs? If your going to advise this, you need to put data up for safe food handling practices.
[Feb 4 9:55am]Meat should be 165 degrees.
[Feb 4 9:55am]Serve.

Any other questions feel free to shoot me a PM.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 09:10 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirker View Post

ANYONE - got any rules of thumb data (time/pound) for larger brisket over 12.5 or 13 lbs?

My experience is limited (heck, I've only been cooking brisket for the past five months or so, though I've cooked a bunch in that time, and I'm heading out now to RD to pick up another packer), so others will have much more data than I.

But you're right, the curve tapers with bigger cuts of meat. ie (again, this is from my limited experience) - a 15 pound packer may only take one hour longer than a 13 pound packer. Lots of variables, though - ie the quality of the meat, fat content, etc. Chit, cooking a Wagyu packer of a given weight may only take 70% or 80% as long as a random select packer - better marbling, less collagen = no stall with the Wagyu.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 09:16 AM   #30
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Very interesting!
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