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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 01-23-2012, 11:48 AM   #16
Mister Bob
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I agree with the guys who said it was probably under cooked. Only rarely have I had a brisket done at 190 (though it has happened). More often for me, it happens somewhere between 195 and 205. You just have to keep it going until the probe slides right in.

Also, if you're using foil, make sure you vent for at least 10 minutes before resting so the brisket doesn't continue to cook. Rest for at least two hours if possible and you should be good to go.

I think one of the most difficult things for a beginner brisket cook to do, is to let it keep on cooking when all your instincts are telling you it's already over done. You just have to keep the faith and wait for that magic moment when the probe slides in like buttah. Patience is a virtue!
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Unread 01-23-2012, 02:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_L View Post
I let the brisket vent for a few minutes before foiling (if they are already in foil I open it for a few minutes) to stop any carry over cooking.
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Originally Posted by Mister Bob View Post
Also, if you're using foil, make sure you vent for at least 10 minutes before resting so the brisket doesn't continue to cook. Rest for at least two hours if possible and you should be good to go.
THIS makes sense and is something I've never done. Is this also necessary for butts? I've always just pulled and coolered right away for both briskets and butts. I've never actually heard this advice before. The last couple of briskets I've done were pulled when they were probe tender, but when we ate them they seemed a little overdone. I'm guessing they just overcooked during the carry over?

How long is this necessary to stop carry over cooking?

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Unread 01-23-2012, 03:17 PM   #18
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10 minutes is probably good. I open the foil and let it sit until the heavy steam stops.

I don't think it's as necessary for butts since they have a wider temp range where they are good, but it can't hurt :)
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Unread 01-23-2012, 03:45 PM   #19
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clikover, I think they have you heading in the right direction. Whether fat cap up or down, bring that surface temperature up to 250-270. Cook the meat up to 200 give or take. If you haven't foiled, do so at the end and let it rest for an hour or so. Oh, yeah, dont rub and then let it sit overnight. Bad things, like too salty, or too dry, etc.

Temperature, is that the reading on the external mounted thermometer, or the actual cooking surface temperature? FYI: more often than not the two temperatures will not be close. If you're reading 225+- external you may be cooking at 200 and I'll guarantee that meat was undercooked.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 04:19 PM   #20
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It was the temp at the grate...I had 2 probes in there, a Thermoworks 8060 and a Maverick...the only thing I know absolutely for sure is what the temp was right where the brisket was sitting!!! I agree that bimetal thermos mounted in lids or high in the pit are not accurate. In a Good One pit (mine) they mount the TelTru at the very top...there is a 50 degree variation from top to bottom of the pit because of design. One of the things I don't like about the Good One design (although it's nice if you know it, you just have to arrange your different meat types on the racks accordingly.)
I'm pretty convinced at this point it was undercooked. The thing that confused me is that the way it felt on the probe was exactly like the previous brisket I cooked that turned out bad...and I know that one was OVERcooked, because it was so very clearly dried out (like burnt ends). The one big difference: that one was a dry aged brisket that I got from a speciality butcher that dry ages. So, the variables were not consistent. That one could have dried out and acted like it did for other reasons. I know I started with the right cut of meat this time, I must have just not cooked it enough. What really threw me off was that the probe feel was exactly like that last one that didn't turn out. I think I know my mistakes now. I freaked out, pulled it too early, and then didn't let it rest long enough. I think I'm going to foil the next one at 150-160 to maintain moisture. THE ONE THING I KNOW...I'M NOT LETTING THAT SUCKER OFF THE PIT UNTIL IT EITHER PROBES LIKE BUTTER AND/OR THE PROBE TEMP HAS GONE WELL ABOVE 200 AND STILL HASN'T. I MAY BURN IT UP, BUT AT LEAST IT WON'T BE UNDERCOOKED. IT WILL BE A TEST OF WILL & ENDURANCE - ME VS. THE BRISKET.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 04:28 PM   #21
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One way to tell if a brisket overcooked or undercooked is to do the tug test. Hold a warm slice of brisket at each end and try to pull it in half. If it's cooked properly, it will pull in half with just a little resistance.
An undercooked brisket will be difficult to pull in half.
An overcooked brisket will be extremely easy to pull in half, and tends to "crumble" apart instead of holding it's shape.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 06:35 PM   #22
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I smoke Brisket at 275° to 300° and have good results.
IMO: A hotter temp. gives a shorter smoking time and moist meat.

I think what has happened to you is the lower temp. gives a significantly longer smoke, and allows the meat to dry.

(I use an old small metal thermometer for my probe, I probe when it starts to look right.
Over the years I've been pretty close to the right temp.,when it looks and feels right.)

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Unread 01-23-2012, 06:50 PM   #23
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Guys: one big thing regarding Prep that I forgot to mention before and I would really like to poll you guys on...the use of a Jaccard (meat tenderizer) in the rub stage of prep. This is something I saw Chris Marks recommend...he says because it helps to drive the rub seasoning down into the meat, which I do think it looks like it does. The question I have is: do you think that using the Jaccard all over the brisket is somehow causing the juices to run out? It does cut little holes into the meat all over. I have never seen anyone else on the Bretheren mention the use of a Jaccard in all the brisket threads I've read...but I've kept using it because I saw Chris Marks use it and it seemed to make sense to me. Thoughts?
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Unread 01-23-2012, 07:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clikover View Post
Guys: one big thing regarding Prep that I forgot to mention before and I would really like to poll you guys on...the use of a Jaccard (meat tenderizer) in the rub stage of prep. This is something I saw Chris Marks recommend...he says because it helps to drive the rub seasoning down into the meat, which I do think it looks like it does. The question I have is: do you think that using the Jaccard all over the brisket is somehow causing the juices to run out? It does cut little holes into the meat all over. I have never seen anyone else on the Bretheren mention the use of a Jaccard in all the brisket threads I've read...but I've kept using it because I saw Chris Marks use it and it seemed to make sense to me. Thoughts?
Just the thought of poking hundreds of little holes in my brisket makes me cringe

BUT, I have never tried it, so I can't speak from personal experience.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 08:19 PM   #25
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A couple of things, fat up or down, I use both and feel you should point the fat cap in direction of the hotter air to protect the meat.
fast cook 350-400 vrs slow 225 250 the faster cook you will see more shrinkage, a different texture to the meat, not so pronounce smoke ring, maybe a better flavor..
Cooking above the water pan on a Backwoods, I feel not to do this, your meat will have a poached looked to it as the meat is being steamed...
wrap or not to wrap, if you decide to wrap wait untill 165 / 170 internal
Temp to finnish, I have seen mine plateau for a short time and a long time, depends how tight the grain of the meat is..I will pull at 185 IF the probe goes in real nice, never have i gone past 195 and still able to get slices, after 195 it might crumble..
resting, I let rest up to 4 hours, wraped in blanket, never sealed as the bark will soften..
take alook at your rubs, add some turbinado or brown sugar on top of your rub to help seal it..I have wraped in foil, not wraped... cooked fast..cooked slow..fat up fat down...water tray..no water..every way posible to cook a brisket..injected..not injected..mustard bath...beef broth...a salt bath the night before...you name and I have tested it and 99% of the time it is just running of juice when it is sliced...
So take a look at how much air is running tru you cooker maybe a key there..but look at your final rubs..and seal juices in...ps, my best brisket was wet aged 4 to 6 weeks...
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Unread 01-23-2012, 08:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clikover View Post
Guys: one big thing regarding Prep that I forgot to mention before and I would really like to poll you guys on...the use of a Jaccard (meat tenderizer) in the rub stage of prep. This is something I saw Chris Marks recommend...he says because it helps to drive the rub seasoning down into the meat, which I do think it looks like it does. The question I have is: do you think that using the Jaccard all over the brisket is somehow causing the juices to run out? It does cut little holes into the meat all over. I have never seen anyone else on the Bretheren mention the use of a Jaccard in all the brisket threads I've read...but I've kept using it because I saw Chris Marks use it and it seemed to make sense to me. Thoughts?
I would say that step isn't needed. When you slice a brisket against the grain after it's done you are basically doing what the Jaccard is supposed to do when it's raw. But, brisket has so much connective tissue between the muscle fibers that cutting the fibers while the meat is raw is still leaving the connective tissues intact. It's the connective tissue that makes under cooked brisket that's sliced against the grain seem tough. The best way to deal with it is to just cook the brisket until they break down.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 11:06 PM   #27
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I personally think its the cut of meat your useng. It sounds like you need to start them on the smoker to acheive the color that your looking for then pan and foil the top only. If you cooking just flats you may want to add some liquid (save the pan drippings and reuse). Tr a Cert Angus or waygu and I think your going to see some good results. Im speaking from experience here I was useing IBPs and was having the same problem you are a friend told me to try angus and t turned my briskets around. If you are cooking them for the home and dot want to se a more quality brisket then do nor rest cut very soon and soak in piping hot aujus in a pan covered for 20 or so minutes that will help those briskets.......
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Unread 01-24-2012, 12:26 AM   #28
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try buying your brisket somewhere else.i buy my meat from 2 different places one place has much better brisket
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Unread 01-24-2012, 10:34 AM   #29
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I totally agree with Blitzkrieg, go with a CAB Choice brisket or better to get the best results. Blitzkrieg had a great brisket the past weekend which took first place, once again Tommy...GREAT Job taking GC.
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