The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ > For the Board

Notices

For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 11-15-2011, 02:37 PM   #1
ModelMaker
is One Chatty Farker
 
ModelMaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-21-06
Location: Lake Ponderosa-Montezuma, IA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Candidate question 4ish

I would like to know how the candiates feel about requiring head cooks to be active KCBS members.
Ed
__________________
Designer of a custom drum smoker
Customized Aussie gas passer
Turkey fryer
Extremely seasoned hand hammered Wok
Pit Boss-HART BURN Competition BBQ Team
KCBS certified judge


And Your not the boss of me either!!
ModelMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from:--->
Unread 11-15-2011, 03:40 PM   #2
Rookie'48
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Rookie'48's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-12-06
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I'd love to see that - if we can figure out how to do it without shooting ourselves in the foot. As it stands right now we're trying to get more KCBS contests in areas that we don't have a strong presence, such as the Pacific northwest, New England, Texas, etc. If we require that the cooks join KCBS that might be the deciding factor on whether a team cooks our contest or goes somewhere else.

Maybe we can encourage the teams to join by offering a rebate ($10 to $25 ???) to teams that have a KCBS membership number. Maybe we could offer a membership with the entry fee at certain first time comps. These are just "what if" answers and really need to be studied further for legality, practicality, cost effectiveness, etc before any decision is reached.

The ultimate goal would to have all teams as KCBS members and active in the organization.
__________________
Dave Compton
KCBS MasterCBJ # 22569
Member of the 100+ Contest Club

Possibly the only judge ever to get an award from a bunch of cooks

UDS 075 UCB WSM and a bunch of other stuff.
Rookie'48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from:--->
Unread 11-15-2011, 04:33 PM   #3
Leatherheadiowa
Full Fledged Farker

 
Leatherheadiowa's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-12-11
Location: Windsor Heights, Iowa
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I would like to see membership be encouraged strongly. Maybe have TOY and other award candidates be required to be members before they can be considered for those awards. (Kind of like a contingency)
I think that requiring will be tough to do. Just like any other requirement some people will see it as micromanagement. Ed, I personally wonder why there is a double standard for judges and cooks. Why is membership required to judge and not cook? You can't have a contest without both groups...
Great question Ed!
Leatherheadiowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from:--->
Unread 11-15-2011, 04:57 PM   #4
YankeeBBQ
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 02-07-06
Location: boston ma
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ModelMaker View Post
I would like to know how the candiates feel about requiring head cooks to be active KCBS members.
Ed
I think that could be very detrimental to the KCBS. KCBS is selling a service to contest organizers. If I were organizing a contest I would want a sanctioning organization that allows the most people to compete. Limiting my competition to a members only event would limit the number of teams.

Every team pays an entry fee which in turn pays for the sanctioning. Nobody that pays the entry fee is getting a free ride. If you look at the KCBS financials a lot more money comes in via sanctioning fees than membership fees. Sanctioning fees pay for all the reps, slips, plates computer usage etc.

I can certainly understand requiring membership to be eligible for Team of the Year and any other benefit programs that KCBS provides.
__________________
Steve Farrin
KCBS BOD member. Thank you for your support.

This post is my opinion and mine alone, not necessarily that of the KCBS, it's board of directors or office nor that of Peter Pan, Tinkerbell and certainly not Rush Limbaugh.
YankeeBBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2011, 08:29 PM   #5
Jorge
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Jorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-23-04
Location: DFW, San AntonioTx
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I would strongly oppose that. KCBS is selling a service to an organizer, we don't need to place additional restrictions on them. They aren't required to use CBJs who get a membership with their class, but many choose to. Beyond that, we would be getting into areas that I don't think we want to venture into. If membership is required it's no longer truly 'Open'.

Whether one is a member or not, they are paying a fee when they enter. I think we need to do a better job of making it worth their $ to join.
__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. --Frank Zappa

BOOGITY, BOOGITY, BOOGITY!!!

Recipient of a Huggies box!

Shut up, and cook!!!!
Jorge is online now   Reply With Quote
Thanks from: --->
Unread 11-16-2011, 09:04 AM   #6
ique
is One Chatty Farker
 
ique's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-14-05
Location: New England
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ View Post
If I were organizing a contest I would want a sanctioning organization that allows the most people to compete.
I always thought this was more an issue of approach. Instead of "membership required" make it KCBS members get a discount. And non members get a free membership. ex,

230 for non members
200 for members

Organizer sends $30 to kcbs for that teams membership

I personally think if you are going to compete under a sanctioning body you should be a member.
ique is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from: --->
Unread 11-16-2011, 10:15 AM   #7
Divemaster
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Divemaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ique View Post
I always thought this was more an issue of approach. Instead of "membership required" make it KCBS members get a discount. And non members get a free membership. ex,

230 for non members
200 for members

Organizer sends $30 to kcbs for that teams membership

I personally think if you are going to compete under a sanctioning body you should be a member.
Didn’t KCBS propose something like that a couple of years back? As I recall, there was quite a backlash on it.
__________________
Jeff
CBJ# 23376
Stockcar BBQ
Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life!
If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish!

Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe.
Divemaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from:--->
Unread 11-16-2011, 10:38 AM   #8
Jorge
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Jorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-23-04
Location: DFW, San AntonioTx
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ique View Post
I always thought this was more an issue of approach. Instead of "membership required" make it KCBS members get a discount. And non members get a free membership. ex,

230 for non members
200 for members

Organizer sends $30 to kcbs for that teams membership

I personally think if you are going to compete under a sanctioning body you should be a member.
In a perfect world I agree with you. I'd prefer that at least the head cook be a member. With your proposal the truth is that nobody would get a discount. Somebody is getting an annual fee tacked on to their entry, and we are making the organizer responsible for collecting it. If the organizer has to charge $200 to hit his target, member teams aren't going to be charged $170.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divemaster View Post
Didn’t KCBS propose something like that a couple of years back? As I recall, there was quite a backlash on it.
I believe the larger factor was that requiring membership would have raised a question about the contest being 'Open'. That in turn has implications for the larger invitational events. EDIT: and there could be some 501C issues as well.
__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. --Frank Zappa

BOOGITY, BOOGITY, BOOGITY!!!

Recipient of a Huggies box!

Shut up, and cook!!!!
Jorge is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2011, 10:57 AM   #9
Jeff_in_KC
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Jeff_in_KC's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-05
Location: Pleasant Hill, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

If I recall correctly, it was mostly because of the 501c issue that this didn't happen. That's just the way I remember it though. As an organizer myself, I don't want to be responsible for collecting fees but it really isn't difficult to do if this was something we found legal to do with the 501c thing. Just collect it and when you write the check to KCBS after awards, you just add on the additional amounts for non-KCBS teams who competed and give the reps contact info you collected on the entry form.

I don't think I'd like to see membership required to compete. I think the better angle rather than forcing someone to join is to get new teams involved and show them the benefit of membership while they're at the contest. Reps should speak with all non-member head cooks and welcome them and show a KCBS presence. Give them a Bullsheet (which we need to constantly improve upon - I would love to discuss this issue in another thread), some coupons for BBQ related products and whatever else we can come up with to put our best foot forward in extending a welcome to non-member teams and, if they join, recognize them at awards ceremonies as a new KCBS member. Instead of force, why not persuade and then make them feel like a part of the family?
__________________
KCBS Member #14287
Jeff_in_KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from:--->
Unread 11-16-2011, 11:11 AM   #10
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I'll just chine in on this because I had a conversation with Wayne Lohman about this very issue this year. The specific reason he gave me was that the not-for-profit status of the KCBS would be affected by requiring membership to compete. I asked him about discounts for KCBS members, and he said that it was an idea being considered. I've seen a few comps that do this, and The National BBQ Cup this weekend is doing it too. The "Open" nature of requiring membership was not brought up (That doesn't make it untrue) but personally I don't see it as an issue. Non-member teams would not be excluded from competing as KCBS membership itself is open. That's just my take on it. IANAL.

I'm not running for the BOD, but my personal opionion for those who are and may get on there, I don't think it would be a bad thing to give a discount to KCBS members for a KCBS sanctioned event. I see all sides of the argument, and have even said that people shouldn't become members "just because." I agree that the sanctioning, as a service, is paid for by entry fees, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful to have more cook members. Years ago I competed in a Chilli cookoff, and they had a similar system in place where members got cheaper entrance fees. I remember thinking it was a mild pain, but it didn't really change our mind. We chose not to join as it was our only event and cheaper that way. Others might do the same with KCBS.

Another option I've been considering: Judges aren't required to be members, but organizers require them to "apply" and often give first priority to members, right? Why not take a similar approach with teams? If your team is not a "member team" and you submit an application, you go on a wait list and are only allowed to compete if the comp doesn't fill up with members by 28 days before the event. Does that sound reasonable? Teams can always pay the $35 to join and be guarenteed if they want, though this may affect the "open" nature as well.

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2011, 11:21 AM   #11
Jorge
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Jorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-23-04
Location: DFW, San AntonioTx
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
I'll just chine in on this because I had a conversation with Wayne Lohman about this very issue this year. The specific reason he gave me was that the not-for-profit status of the KCBS would be affected by requiring membership to compete. I asked him about discounts for KCBS members, and he said that it was an idea being considered. I've seen a few comps that do this, and The National BBQ Cup this weekend is doing it too. The "Open" nature of requiring membership was not brought up (That doesn't make it untrue) but personally I don't see it as an issue. Non-member teams would not be excluded from competing as KCBS membership itself is open. That's just my take on it. IANAL.

I'm not running for the BOD, but my personal opionion for those who are and may get on there, I don't think it would be a bad thing to give a discount to KCBS members for a KCBS sanctioned event. I see all sides of the argument, and have even said that people shouldn't become members "just because." I agree that the sanctioning, as a service, is paid for by entry fees, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful to have more cook members. Years ago I competed in a Chilli cookoff, and they had a similar system in place where members got cheaper entrance fees. I remember thinking it was a mild pain, but it didn't really change our mind. We chose not to join as it was our only event and cheaper that way. Others might do the same with KCBS.

Another option I've been considering: Judges aren't required to be members, but organizers require them to "apply" and often give first priority to members, right? Why not take a similar approach with teams? If your team is not a "member team" and you submit an application, you go on a wait list and are only allowed to compete if the comp doesn't fill up with members by 28 days before the event. Does that sound reasonable? Teams can always pay the $35 to join and be guarenteed if they want, though this may affect the "open" nature as well.

dmp
I understand you point and think it has some merit. At the end of the day, I think we are imposing too much on the organizer. If KCBS was organizing the contest then I think there is additional merit to your ideas. KCBS is selling a service and a scoring system. We require security, but that is most likely driven by liability issues and concerns. I think our focus should be on helping organizers put on the best contest possible, and not give them an additional burden. It should be our responsibility make the value of a membership attractive enough to potential members. Enough people already view KCBS as the 800 lb. Gorilla. I don't think we need to feed that stereotype.
__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. --Frank Zappa

BOOGITY, BOOGITY, BOOGITY!!!

Recipient of a Huggies box!

Shut up, and cook!!!!
Jorge is online now   Reply With Quote
Thanks from: --->
Unread 11-16-2011, 02:47 PM   #12
Rookie'48
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Rookie'48's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-12-06
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
... Judges aren't required to be members, but organizers require them to "apply" and often give first priority to members, right? ...
Actually judges have to show currant membership to be considered as "Certified" BBQ Judges. If you're not paid up then KCBS no longer considers you to be a CBJ.

However, there is nothing stoping the organizer from using non-certified judges if he wants to. They just can't be counted as part of the CBJ per centage that is published in the Bullsheet showing what was the % last year. Most KCBS contest organizers try for as many CBJs as they can get but there are some who would rather have a large % of celebrity judges instead (North Kansas City comes to mind).
__________________
Dave Compton
KCBS MasterCBJ # 22569
Member of the 100+ Contest Club

Possibly the only judge ever to get an award from a bunch of cooks

UDS 075 UCB WSM and a bunch of other stuff.
Rookie'48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2011, 04:24 PM   #13
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

That was my point. :) KCBS sanctioned contests don't have to use CBJs, or even trained judges, but organizers tend to prefer them. The reasons are irrelevent for this conversation, just that those who aren't certified (i.e. trained and current members) are often lower on the priority list. Would it be the worst thing in the world to do the same with cook teams? I'm not pushing for that idea, but it is an idea which I've not heard discussed. Maybe for good reason.

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 09:51 AM   #14
kihrer
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 09-28-11
Location: Harleysville, PA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC View Post
I don't think I'd like to see membership required to compete. I think the better angle rather than forcing someone to join is to get new teams involved and show them the benefit of membership while they're at the contest. Reps should speak with all non-member head cooks and welcome them and show a KCBS presence. Give them a Bullsheet (which we need to constantly improve upon - I would love to discuss this issue in another thread), some coupons for BBQ related products and whatever else we can come up with to put our best foot forward in extending a welcome to non-member teams and, if they join, recognize them at awards ceremonies as a new KCBS member. Instead of force, why not persuade and then make them feel like a part of the family?
I really like this idea.

Also, I think that if a team believes it will be competing in multiple KCBS events, that it is in their best interest to join. If for nothing more than the voting rights. It is hard to justify complaining about a system if you don't vote.

Ken
kihrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 10:36 AM   #15
Rookie'48
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Rookie'48's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-12-06
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kihrer View Post
I really like this idea.

Also, I think that if a team believes it will be competing in multiple KCBS events, that it is in their best interest to join. If for nothing more than the voting rights. It is hard to justify complaining about a system if you don't vote.

Ken
WINNER!!! ^^^^^ That is one of my biggest complaints - those who beotch but can't be bothered to vote. This also relates to the fact that we can't get 25% of the members to vote even though the ballot comes right to your computer.

Oh well, maybe they're happy with the way things are.
__________________
Dave Compton
KCBS MasterCBJ # 22569
Member of the 100+ Contest Club

Possibly the only judge ever to get an award from a bunch of cooks

UDS 075 UCB WSM and a bunch of other stuff.
Rookie'48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What to do with a 4ish# brisket flat? kylersk Q-talk 17 08-14-2010 06:52 PM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts