Apology and question

hmbrewr · 09-23-2011, 11:13 AM

Well it seems as if I was wrong when I stated in another thread that the critical temps for food was higher than 40 and less than 140 deg F. I was quoting from memory on a food handling class I took a couple of years ago. As I age, apparently the memory isn't as good as it used to be. Anyway, my question for all you pros out there is what is the critical hi and lo temps for food out of the reefer?

CarolinaQue · 09-23-2011, 11:32 AM

As per Servsafe, and I believe they follow the USDA, the new danger zone temps are 40* to 135*.

swibirun · 09-23-2011, 11:53 AM

I was always told 40 to 140 and this USDA web page shows that:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/...Zone/index.asp

Sometimes locally I see 38 as the low.

Boshizzle · 09-23-2011, 11:53 AM

The USDA web site still shows 40 - 140 as the danger zone.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/...food/index.asp

Boshizzle · 09-23-2011, 11:54 AM

swibirun,

The rare and elusive simultaneous post with identical info has occured.

CarolinaQue · 09-23-2011, 01:56 PM

My mistake, it was the FDA that Servsafe followed. They changed their recommendation to 135* in 2005 I believe.

I will add that you should check with your local codes and state health department if you are a food handler. Some thimes they require more than what the FDA or USDA recommends.

Cook · 09-23-2011, 02:11 PM

You are correct in that the old saying was "40-140". It was easy to remember for sure.

I will say that my state regulatory agency says 45-135 is adequate for their purposes. That's a 10 degree spread from the old danger zone criteria.

I will also stress that while these "rules" are important, they are meant for commercial applications where sickness & disease can spread quickly through a population. At home you don't have to follow these rules to a "T". We commonly ate dinner at Granny's from the lunch leftovers...she kept them in the cupboard right beside the plates & glasses. Not at all saying everyone should be doing as Granny did, but rather food safety regulations can be a bit extreme for the home environment. Do what you feel is best for your family.

chambersuac · 09-23-2011, 02:18 PM

I know that our HD requires 140 and 40 degrees. I have heard about the new "135" degree limit, but (1) I remember 140/40 easier and (2) I'm a Lutheran, we don't like change :)

BTW, hmbrewr, I don't think you needed to apologize. Just send us all presents. LOL

CharredPiggies · 09-23-2011, 02:39 PM

Give or take 5* one way or the other the point we were making is that the rules on food temps are for food storage, not for temporary holding etc...

At some point the internal temp is going to rise and it will do so slowly when smoking low and slow... and we still eat that meat that may have spent several hours rising above the 140* mark. So it's not out of line to think that meat sitting out on the counter for an hour will be in any way harmful to those who consume it.

The point being- "Critical Temps" ARE important to pay attention to, but no one here should have a problem with letting meat rise to above 40* before cooking, which is what my original thread was referencing.

Cheers to you for being better safe than salmonella.

How bout a home brew this way, bro?

Divemaster · 09-23-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chambersuac

I know that our HD requires 140 and 40 degrees. I have heard about the new "135" degree limit, but (1) I remember 140/40 easier and (2) I'm a Lutheran, we don't like change :)

BTW, hmbrewr, I don't think you needed to apologize. Just send us all presents. LOL

I too always remember the 40/140 rule, but when I know that the inspector is around I set one of my remote thermos to 145 on the cool end so I have time to pull the meat and put it into a heating tray. Did this when I was doing pigs for a local fest a couple of weeks ago and it saved us from having to go through the reheating routine.

Also, remember that when cooling food you have a total of 4 hours to get it below 41* (2 hours to 70* and 2 hours to 40*)

Cook · 09-23-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divemaster

Also, remember that when cooling food you have a total of 4 hours to get it below 41* (2 hours to 70* and 2 hours to 40*)

Nope. That isn't right either. Sorry, guys...I swear I'm not just trying to find something wrong. But wrong is wrong.

Cook · 09-23-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharredPiggies

At some point the internal temp is going to rise and it will do so slowly when smoking low and slow... and we still eat that meat that may have spent several hours rising above the 140* mark. So it's not out of line to think that meat sitting out on the counter for an hour will be in any way harmful to those who consume it.

Actually, the internal temperature of a solid piece of meat that is cooking is ok to be in the danger zone for extended periods. Bacteria does not have a chance to get in there unless you place it in there for some reason (makes me wonder about those that inject with 'dirty' needles). It is the surface area that would be affected by bacteria...and that gets to above 135 (140) fairly quickly.

pmad · 09-23-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmbrewr

Well it seems as if I was wrong when I stated in another thread that the critical temps for food was higher than 40 and less than 140 deg F. I was quoting from memory on a food handling class I took a couple of years ago. As I age, apparently the memory isn't as good as it used to be. Anyway, my question for all you pros out there is what is the critical hi and lo temps for food out of the reefer?

You weren't wrong with your temperatures.
Your error came in apply that to leaving meat come to room temperature.

The 40°-140° is correct in regards to leaving food out for serving purposes.
They don't apply to leaving food out temporarily to come to temperature.

Cook · 09-23-2011, 03:56 PM

Hey, I even discovered that ""I"" am wrong about what my state requires. The upper limit in South Carolina for holding temperature is 130 degrees. Shows how much I pay attention.

hmbrewr · 09-23-2011, 04:57 PM

I have to admit that I don't always follow those guidelines when I cook, although chicken does scare me a bit. I don"t cook commercially.However I do a lot of disaster relief with the Red Cross driving an Emergency relief vehicle feeding people out of the truck in disaster areas.Some days we serve over 1000 meals and snacks. The Red Cross stresses and over stresses the 40-140 thing and the importance of thoroughly cleaning all of the cambros and utensils including washing down the vehicle interior with disinfectant. Because of this I might have become a bit more anal in my food prep at home, but I don't run around with a thermometer in my hand. Just good common sense applies. Thanks to all who replied, and as they used to say on "Hill Street Blues", Be safe out there.

09-23-2011, 11:13 AM	#1
hmbrewr Got Wood. Join Date: 07-13-10 Location: Modesto Ca. Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Apology and question Well it seems as if I was wrong when I stated in another thread that the critical temps for food was higher than 40 and less than 140 deg F. I was quoting from memory on a food handling class I took a couple of years ago. As I age, apparently the memory isn't as good as it used to be. Anyway, my question for all you pros out there is what is the critical hi and lo temps for food out of the reefer?

09-23-2011, 11:53 AM	#3
swibirun is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 02-21-09 Location: Knoxville, TN Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I was always told 40 to 140 and this USDA web page shows that: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/...Zone/index.asp Sometimes locally I see 38 as the low. __________________ Chris Knoxville, TN two Big Green Eggs (large) Smoke Hollow smoker/grill combo www.nibblemethis.com

09-23-2011, 11:53 AM	#4
Boshizzle somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 01-26-10 Location: Virginia Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The USDA web site still shows 40 - 140 as the danger zone. http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/...food/index.asp __________________ Jambo Pit - UDS - Lang 60 (Sold) 18.5" & 22.5" Weber Kettles - Smokey Joe and Mini-WSM - Bubba Keg - #2 La Caja China Chargriller Outlaw Impeccably Accurate BLACK & RED Thermapens KCBS CBJ Operation BBQ Relief Founding Member I am Obsessive Compulsive about BBQ. Google it.

09-23-2011, 11:54 AM	#5
Boshizzle somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 01-26-10 Location: Virginia Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	swibirun, The rare and elusive simultaneous post with identical info has occured. __________________ Jambo Pit - UDS - Lang 60 (Sold) 18.5" & 22.5" Weber Kettles - Smokey Joe and Mini-WSM - Bubba Keg - #2 La Caja China Chargriller Outlaw Impeccably Accurate BLACK & RED Thermapens KCBS CBJ Operation BBQ Relief Founding Member I am Obsessive Compulsive about BBQ. Google it.

09-23-2011, 02:11 PM	#7
Cook is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 12-23-10 Location: Mount Pleasnt, SC Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You are correct in that the old saying was "40-140". It was easy to remember for sure. I will say that my state regulatory agency says 45-135 is adequate for their purposes. That's a 10 degree spread from the old danger zone criteria. I will also stress that while these "rules" are important, they are meant for commercial applications where sickness & disease can spread quickly through a population. At home you don't have to follow these rules to a "T". We commonly ate dinner at Granny's from the lunch leftovers...she kept them in the cupboard right beside the plates & glasses. Not at all saying everyone should be doing as Granny did, but rather food safety regulations can be a bit extreme for the home environment. Do what you feel is best for your family. __________________ "BBQ...it's just heat & meat" - Circa 5/10/11 - Quote by Cook

09-23-2011, 11:32 AM	#2
CarolinaQue is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 06-23-07 Location: North Berwick, ME Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	As per Servsafe, and I believe they follow the USDA, the new danger zone temps are 40* to 135*.

09-23-2011, 01:56 PM	#6
CarolinaQue is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 06-23-07 Location: North Berwick, ME Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	My mistake, it was the FDA that Servsafe followed. They changed their recommendation to 135* in 2005 I believe. I will add that you should check with your local codes and state health department if you are a food handler. Some thimes they require more than what the FDA or USDA recommends.

09-23-2011, 02:18 PM	#8
chambersuac somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 04-02-09 Location: Manito, IL Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I know that our HD requires 140 and 40 degrees. I have heard about the new "135" degree limit, but (1) I remember 140/40 easier and (2) I'm a Lutheran, we don't like change :) BTW, hmbrewr, I don't think you needed to apologize. Just send us all presents. LOL __________________ Dan Large BGE x 2, Small BGE, Big Steel Keg, WSM, 22" Weber Kettle, Charmglow Gasser, The Holy Smoked UDS and her sister UDS, and one custom trailer-ed smoker. The universe's fastest and most accurate Thermapen. (Replaced by Brethren) IMBAS Certified MOINK Ball maker Thanks, Grillman, for the avatar! And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. [Acts 20:32 KJV]

09-23-2011, 02:39 PM	#9
CharredPiggies Got Wood. Join Date: 09-18-11 Location: Georgetown, TX Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Give or take 5* one way or the other the point we were making is that the rules on food temps are for food storage, not for temporary holding etc... At some point the internal temp is going to rise and it will do so slowly when smoking low and slow... and we still eat that meat that may have spent several hours rising above the 140* mark. So it's not out of line to think that meat sitting out on the counter for an hour will be in any way harmful to those who consume it. The point being- "Critical Temps" ARE important to pay attention to, but no one here should have a problem with letting meat rise to above 40* before cooking, which is what my original thread was referencing. Cheers to you for being better safe than salmonella. How bout a home brew this way, bro?

09-23-2011, 03:56 PM	#14
Cook is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 12-23-10 Location: Mount Pleasnt, SC Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hey, I even discovered that ""I"" am wrong about what my state requires. The upper limit in South Carolina for holding temperature is 130 degrees. Shows how much I pay attention. __________________ "BBQ...it's just heat & meat" - Circa 5/10/11 - Quote by Cook

09-23-2011, 04:57 PM	#15
hmbrewr Got Wood. Join Date: 07-13-10 Location: Modesto Ca. Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have to admit that I don't always follow those guidelines when I cook, although chicken does scare me a bit. I don"t cook commercially.However I do a lot of disaster relief with the Red Cross driving an Emergency relief vehicle feeding people out of the truck in disaster areas.Some days we serve over 1000 meals and snacks. The Red Cross stresses and over stresses the 40-140 thing and the importance of thoroughly cleaning all of the cambros and utensils including washing down the vehicle interior with disinfectant. Because of this I might have become a bit more anal in my food prep at home, but I don't run around with a thermometer in my hand. Just good common sense applies. Thanks to all who replied, and as they used to say on "Hill Street Blues", Be safe out there.