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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 01-27-2011, 04:22 PM   #121
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But if the pigs are raised, slaughtered, cut, packed, shipped and sold in the US, how can they be considered a European cut?

Could it be this cut is destined to Asian and EU markets?
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Unread 01-27-2011, 04:31 PM   #122
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I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but the IMPS/NAMP documents not only describe what the cuts of meat are, but they are instruction manuals for how to butcher an entire animal. You have to know which muscle is which and what the dorsal side is, etc, but if you know enough swine or bovine A&P, you can start with a whole carcass and create properly butcher the animal. The European guide which has been mentioned a few times in this thread has similar instructions, but they differ: They may say to cut a different muscle, or to cut the same muscle in a different place, or same with bones, fat, or connective tissue. And this is what I have been trying to get at the whole thread: Are we concerned with what the cut is called, or what the meat is?

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Unread 01-27-2011, 05:12 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but the IMPS/NAMP documents not only describe what the cuts of meat are, but they are instruction manuals for how to butcher an entire animal. You have to know which muscle is which and what the dorsal side is, etc, but if you know enough swine or bovine A&P, you can start with a whole carcass and create properly butcher the animal. The European guide which has been mentioned a few times in this thread has similar instructions, but they differ: They may say to cut a different muscle, or to cut the same muscle in a different place, or same with bones, fat, or connective tissue. And this is what I have been trying to get at the whole thread: Are we concerned with what the cut is called, or what the meat is?

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Yes!

I don't care what it's called if it's a butt, as we have known it. If it's a different cut, containing different muscles the field is no longer level. I don't care if it comes from the shoulder. The rules, as they are written, exist to establish a fair contest for anyone that chooses to enter.
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Unread 01-27-2011, 05:37 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcher BBQ View Post
Bingo that is exactly what it is, they have a standard way of breaking right along with the French, and Austria. I had a lengthy conversation with a BOD member last night about adopting the standard US primal description and location of muscle for pork. The post I made yesterday with all the cutting dimension from the animal is the US recognized way of breaking and selling Pork Shoulder Butts and the collar meat is not part of the method.

Without using a standardized process reading the rules as written you could cook a whole pork loin and front shoulder connected (as one) as long as the butcher called it a butt.
And if you are your own butcher... you'd be set! Wanna supply me a "special" Pork Shoulder this year?
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Unread 01-27-2011, 06:38 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamprb View Post

Could it be this cut is destined to Asian and EU markets?
Actually I think the loin is destined for those markets so it's cut that way and the collar and just about everything else is sort of a by-product. Maybe the hams have some value there as well.

I believe their Wagyu briskets are a similar story. I cooked in Seattle 6-7 years ago with Chris Lilly and we were given briskets and a couple of huge untrimmed shoulders from SRF. I don't believe they had much of a market for those cuts at that time so I'd say they love us now for paying big bucks for it.
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Unread 01-27-2011, 07:19 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbbq View Post
Actually I think the loin is destined for those markets so it's cut that way and the collar and just about everything else is sort of a by-product. Maybe the hams have some value there as well.

I believe their Wagyu briskets are a similar story. I cooked in Seattle 6-7 years ago with Chris Lilly and we were given briskets and a couple of huge untrimmed shoulders from SRF. I don't believe they had much of a market for those cuts at that time so I'd say they love us now for paying big bucks for it.
All I ever hear about on the forums is Snake River Farms for Wagyu and Kurobuta. I've never been able to get it locally, so I've never cooked it. I was at a comp a few years back and Jim Minion introduced the group to some SRF reps that were promoting a grilling contest.

I kinda nosed around on some other sites and couldn't find any Collars. I did see SRF Kurobuta Hams in a couple markets over the holidays.



Mishima Ranch, Kobe Beef America and Premium Proteins have to be just as good as $RF without the brand name recognition.
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Unread 01-27-2011, 07:28 PM   #127
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Minion was involved with the deal I was talking about as well.
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Unread 01-27-2011, 07:44 PM   #128
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Alright.. Let me ask the question this way.
If I were to purchase a whole shoulder for the purpose of cooking in a KCBS competition, would it be legal for me to trim any meat off of said shoulder prior to cooking, and if so, how much trimming can I do and still be legal?
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Unread 01-27-2011, 08:21 PM   #129
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Just go to your butcher and tell him you want this: (this is THE Boston Butt specification)

Item No. 406 - Pork Shoulder, Boston Butt, Bone-In - This item is as described in Item No.
403 except that the picnic is removed as described in Item No. 405. Skin, neck bones and
related cartilage shall be removed. At least traces of false lean (M. trapezius) shall be
exposed. When specified, the neck shall be removed by a straight cut approximately parallel
to the loin side, immediately anterior to the half moon muscle (M. pectorales profundus).

Except tell him you don't want the cut specified in the last sentence. The one that starts, "When specified". ("when specified" are key words)

100% legal, and you get meat you wouldn't if they made that cut.
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Unread 01-27-2011, 08:32 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finney View Post
Just go to your butcher and tell him you want this: (this is THE Boston Butt specification)

Item No. 406 - Pork Shoulder, Boston Butt, Bone-In - This item is as described in Item No.
403 except that the picnic is removed as described in Item No. 405. Skin, neck bones and
related cartilage shall be removed. At least traces of false lean (M. trapezius) shall be
exposed. When specified, the neck shall be removed by a straight cut approximately parallel
to the loin side, immediately anterior to the half moon muscle (M. pectorales profundus).

Except tell him you don't want the cut specified in the last sentence. The one that starts, "When specified". ("when specified" are key words)

100% legal, and you get meat you wouldn't if they made that cut.
Actually this is the correct way:

The shoulder is separated from the side by a straight cut that is approximately perpendicular to the length of the side. The cut shall be made posterior to (so as not to expose) the elbow, but not more than 1.0 inch (2.5 cm) from the tip of the elbow. The outer tip of the subscapularis muscle shall not extend past the dorsal edge of the base of the medial ridge of the blade bone. The foot shall be excluded at or slightly above the upper knee joint by a straight cut approximately perpendicular to the shank bones. The jowl shall be excluded by a straight cut approximately parallel with the loin side which is anterior to, but not more than 1.0 inch (2.5 cm) from the innermost curvature of the ear dip. The neck bones, ribs, breast bones, associated cartilage and breast flap (through the major crease) shall also be excluded. The fat and skin shall be beveled to meet the lean on the dorsal edge. The exterior fat thickness at the dorsal skin edge, measured at the center of the cut, shall not exceed that indicated in the schedule shown.
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Unread 01-27-2011, 08:46 PM   #131
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Yea, but that puts him into a whole shoulder and I was trying to keep him in a Butt... but with the most meat... LOL
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Unread 01-27-2011, 09:22 PM   #132
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I feel like I need a PhD in meat butchery in order to be a competition cook anymore. $150,000 contests will do that, I guess.
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Unread 01-27-2011, 09:31 PM   #133
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I can get a PhD pig scientist to answer some questions if I need too...she loves BBQ but I was saving those chips. Butcher's seems to have it covered.
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Unread 01-27-2011, 09:34 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
I feel like I need a PhD in meat butchery in order to be a competition cook anymore. $150,000 contests will do that, I guess.
I was thinking it was just bored guys on the net. I wonder how many from this thread will be in Las Vegas.....
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Unread 01-27-2011, 09:50 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbbq View Post
Minion was involved with the deal I was talking about as well.
I recall an old BBQ Central Pork Roundtable with you, Jim and others discussing methods, and when Jim brought up the Berkshire/Kurobuta pork he was using, everyone gave him a hard time!
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