ブタ
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Q-talk

Notices

Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 05-11-2010, 12:44 PM   #46
barbefunkoramaque
Babbling Farker
 
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I had this guy at our local restaurant that sorta wants me to fix his lousy Q but will not change anything. I absolutley love the guy though and think he is a nice guy but he INHERITED the most HORRID sauce i have ever had anywhere. hands down... I mean if someone pours a can of tomato soup over ribs I would like that more. Anyway, the other day I ordered a steak and the steak arrived really rare although I said medium rare. I said nothing a choked it down to be nice then he goes on to tell me his "theory" that all steaks he requires to be cooked one temp under what someone asks for because he says doneness is subjective. I sort of understand that but he guarantees nearly every steak is going to be wrong by that logic. Its idiotic to think that way. I see the logic but its planning to fix a problem by making it wrong to start with.

There is indeed a temperature level at which a steak is done to some degree spearated by levels like rare (120-125) - I think mine was 80 degrees LOL - Medium rare (130-135), medium (140-145), Medium well (150-155) Well Done (160) These are easily hittable targets. I would not worry about the "hole" because he sticks one of those meat temp signs in each steak (which goes in the quick temp hole).

Sure I use the feel method but that's not reliable.

Will he listen - nope.
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent
barbefunkoramaque is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 05-11-2010, 12:48 PM   #47
lcbateman3
is One Chatty Farker

 
lcbateman3's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-24-10
Location: Jonesborough, TN
Downloads: 1
Uploads: 0
Default

What you been in my neck of the woods??

Guy here is the same way. I have just about stopped ordering steaks all together from resturants. I can't tell you the last time I got a Medium Rare steak. Always has been rare or done.
__________________
--Lionel

You only fail if you do not try.
lcbateman3 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 05-11-2010, 12:51 PM   #48
barbefunkoramaque
Babbling Farker
 
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I did considerable time in your state when I was researching German Interned Maritime Sailors that were house in a Hot Springs Spa Hotel and Golf Resort back in 1917-1918.
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent
barbefunkoramaque is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 05-11-2010, 01:39 PM   #49
BBQchef33
Grand Poobah and Site Admin
 
BBQchef33's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-11-03
Location: Long Island, NY
Downloads: 13
Uploads: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
LOL Waiting for the Mop



yeah yeah...


i mopped.. didnt even know which one to start with...


now can u ladies please stop pissing on shoes, you're getting it on my floor.

in other words

BACK ON TOPIC!! and play nice!
__________________
Site Administrator and
Grand PooBah

CBJ with a Fuzzy Blue Hat, 18 Foot Competition Trailer, Customized Klose BYC, Custom Klose built MoAB (Mother of All Banderas) passed on to Big Dog, 1 Double Barreled Lang 84, 1 Heavily Modified Bionic Bandera, 1 Custom Super Medium Stickburning Spicewine w/stoker, 1 XL BGE, 1 Mini BGE, 1 Pit Barrel Cooker, 3 WSMs, 3 Weber Kettles, an NB Hondo, A Modified Brinkman Horizontal, DCS 48" Grill, a Broilmaster P3, a covered, pellet pooping FEC100, and our duck died. :(

News Flash:
"A mans worth is judged by the weight of his integrity "

You know your getting older when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy


Smoke on KC.
WWW.BBQ-BRETHREN.COM
BBQchef33 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 05-11-2010, 01:49 PM   #50
Bulverde
Knows what a fatty is.
 
Join Date: 07-23-09
Location: Bulverde, Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
The Temp Probe has caused an over reliance in the false finality of internal temps as a judging medium for the "doneness" if many given smoked meats in the beef and pork categories. The Clock holds a close second in its ability to undermine a otherwise tender and moist product.
If I follow your intent, I think the above with "finality" in it really sums up the popular phiosophy that has baptized a lot of q'ers into the art today.

On the other hand, I use a temp-probe to let me know when I am over the stall, so I can kind of get an idea of when to start probing (I'll open up at about 185ish and jab around on the flat).

I'm always doing so many other things, that I lose track of the cook; so the temp-probe helps.

Also, because I ONLY do hot and fast now, I have learned the HARD way that when it is done, to get it out of there and don't dink around and leave it in there!!

I can not see how a clock could possibly help to get it out when it needs to be out.

Bulverde

Last edited by Bulverde; 05-11-2010 at 02:12 PM..
Bulverde is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 05-11-2010, 02:16 PM   #51
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Lake Dogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-14-09
Location: Lake Sinclair, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

> the zenith of doneness

Now, THERE's the best damned nick I've ever heard of:

TheZenithofDoneness
__________________
Hance - Lake Dogs Cooking Team - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook
Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from darn near anywhere)
Started competing in chili cookoffs back in the 1990's and have competed in more than I care to count. I became a CBJ in MiM in 2005, then MBN and in GBA in 2010. I've probably judged 130+- BBQ comps (sanctioned and unsanctioned) over this time. That said, I really enjoy competing more than I enjoy judging, and hope to get back to doing 4 or 5 a year in the near future.
Lake Dogs is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 05-11-2010, 02:40 PM   #52
moda253
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 07-17-09
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

The clock.... the clock is helpful for pacing. Any more than 4 beers an hour can have adverse effects on our ability to tend to the smoker and can result in a state rendering the cook in a dreamstate.

The temp probe in the meat can help prevent an extreme overcook should the cook forget to check the clock that is so vital to his ability to pace his consumption and he renders himself incapacitated. In In that event an alarm indicating that the meat has reached a certain temperature where one should at least be concious an alarm can wake the sleeping cook so that he can resume his attentive prodding and/or bone pulling processes.

And that is how clocks and thermometers can be important although possible not necessary implements in the barbeque process.

I understand what you are saying barbefunkoramaque but at the same time there are some general temperature zones where I think I am glad I was paying attention when I first started. For example even though I have learend to fine tune when to pull, early on getting the butt to about 200 put me in the zone of what to look for in general. Had I not had that as a guide in the early days I would have probably pulled way too early several times and ended up with a lesser product. If anything when I first started it definately kept me from peeking too often. Now after being at it for a while I just kind of understand when it's time and that it is in fact done when it's done.

In the end it's beer that is the problem in my experience and the consumption of too much of it.
moda253 is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 07-07-2010, 10:21 PM   #53
boogiesnap
Babbling Farker
 
Join Date: 04-22-10
Location: NEW ENGLAND
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

from how many sources can the new bbq cook get the following info:
cook your pork/brisket at 225 until internal temperature reads 195-205.
this instruction is beaten on so many drums its defeaning.

the best brisket, by far and away(and as some sort of coroboration, we had a couple over to eat, and they did a 2 week tour in the south on a BBQ joint quest, and did remark, this was among the best)i had ever had or made(have yet to even come close to replicating, sadly), i pulled at 168. at the time i KNEW it wasn't done, but it was soft to the probe, and i needed the space on the cooker for my next meats cuz i was practicing the first time for comps. so i thought, just push through, and we'll see...
just lucky with that particular brisket and that particular cook, but...

now my issue has progressed a little further as my experience base grows.
i can't help but look at the temps when i probe BTW.
briskets since the one above; they ain't butter soft at 168, and when they are butter soft, usually closer to 185/90, they've been kinda dry.

i'm cooking hot and fast(@325-350)so i am watching the clock for the first hour or two, and i am using an IT at that point to wrap just coming out of the stall, but beyond that, it is just coincidental that the stick i poke it with also tells me what temp its at. its done when its done, but i'm getting them overdone.

i'm working on this skill: smell.
i think you can smell when the meat is coming out of the stall, and then again right when it begins or ends(not sure which yet cuz i haven't done enough, but depending on which one it is that i am smelling can determine done or if you don't watch it CLOSELY overdone)its collagen breakdown and is either the precise time EXACTLY to take it off or the precise time EXACTLY to start giving it some pokes and serious attention.

this is a work in progress for me at its infancy, but i think it's possible.

anyway, i learned, by accident, IT's can't be relied upon. the clock is one of the pillars of life and cannot be avoided or ignored, other than, in reference to BBQ:
"no, it ain't done yet" , "wow, right when i wanted it", or "holy cow, done already"????
boogiesnap is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-08-2010, 07:25 AM   #54
barbefunkoramaque
Babbling Farker
 
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

You are absolutely right. I use these things exclusively to cook brisket and everyone has already seen my weep em and read ribs video.

Sound - like a bag of microwave popcorn (and also the design of either my self made 1000 pound meat mama and the 6600 lbs Brazos which as a diverter plate) I know when things begin to weep. briskets too.... retain a lot of their moisture and FAT throughout about 95 % of the cook.... then, after the stall they begin to weep... a little at first, then like Popcorn in a microwave - a lot... most of it of course fat... hauling away that collagen. When it slows down I usually lately tamp down the furnace making them draw in just before I pull them. I can even listen in the brazos tell from sound which ones start weeping first.... the front and back start weeping first.

Smell - I use a lot of pepper and no foil. Thus the pepper I use becomes more toned down as the brisket nears that done stage (due to the heat and meat juices carrying away the heat of the pepper) yet leaving behind that earthy mild pepper smell. This has to go somewhere... and you do not get this as much on a low and slow cook and DEF NOT if foiled.
I live near a BBQ joint I am slowly trying to influence. I told the guy he needed to ramp up his temp at least to 250 in his oyler. At forst of course he thought I was full of ****. One day I stopped in and looked him in the eye and said "I can tell you did two things" One you saw my video and added that ending salt and pepper rub just before you put them on.. second, I know you ramped up the temps.
He goes how did you know - i said cuz the whole town smells different. I can smell the smell of the meat (WITH your smoke) that you cannot ever get that smell at 220 or 230. Next is... you are about to pull the briskets off as they are weeping right now... the pepper smell is in the air.... which means its coming out of the rub. He was amazed. still has not converted and still will not wrap his briskets - so as a result - he has about 20-30 percent dried out brisket that he thinks his steam oven will revive.

sight - sometimes there is no need to poke when color will do. I know a guy whose probe of a long broom handle with a meat hook on the end. He uses the blunt end to thumb the briskets. When the points get "so - so" then he knows they are ready to pull and hold--- thus tenderize to his liking.

feel - I open the pit and am ready to pull some briskets or shift them to the hot zone to finish them off. Once all these inputs above are in my brain, just placing my hands on the briskets key me in like some kind of brisket empath. Of course i do 25 or more at a time. They either get tossed front or back or pulled and rested. I am getting now to where I do not even probe as much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiesnap View Post
from how many sources can the new bbq cook get the following info:
cook your pork/brisket at 225 until internal temperature reads 195-205.
this instruction is beaten on so many drums its defeaning.

the best brisket, by far and away(and as some sort of coroboration, we had a couple over to eat, and they did a 2 week tour in the south on a BBQ joint quest, and did remark, this was among the best)i had ever had or made(have yet to even come close to replicating, sadly), i pulled at 168. at the time i KNEW it wasn't done, but it was soft to the probe, and i needed the space on the cooker for my next meats cuz i was practicing the first time for comps. so i thought, just push through, and we'll see...
just lucky with that particular brisket and that particular cook, but...

now my issue has progressed a little further as my experience base grows.
i can't help but look at the temps when i probe BTW.
briskets since the one above; they ain't butter soft at 168, and when they are butter soft, usually closer to 185/90, they've been kinda dry.

i'm cooking hot and fast(@325-350)so i am watching the clock for the first hour or two, and i am using an IT at that point to wrap just coming out of the stall, but beyond that, it is just coincidental that the stick i poke it with also tells me what temp its at. its done when its done, but i'm getting them overdone.

i'm working on this skill: smell.
i think you can smell when the meat is coming out of the stall, and then again right when it begins or ends(not sure which yet cuz i haven't done enough, but depending on which one it is that i am smelling can determine done or if you don't watch it CLOSELY overdone)its collagen breakdown and is either the precise time EXACTLY to take it off or the precise time EXACTLY to start giving it some pokes and serious attention.

this is a work in progress for me at its infancy, but i think it's possible.

anyway, i learned, by accident, IT's can't be relied upon. the clock is one of the pillars of life and cannot be avoided or ignored, other than, in reference to BBQ:
"no, it ain't done yet" , "wow, right when i wanted it", or "holy cow, done already"????
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent
barbefunkoramaque is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-08-2010, 01:24 PM   #55
Cre-B-Ce
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 09-25-07
Location: Mobile, AL
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I haven't really been here in a couple of months, but it's threads like these that make me miss the place.
__________________
[FONT=Arial]Wes[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Mobile, AL[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Black][I]Lewd, Qe'd & Tatted [/I][/FONT]


Large Big Green Egg
[FONT=Arial](2) UDS [/FONT]
Cre-B-Ce is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-08-2010, 02:31 PM   #56
JD McGee
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
JD McGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-07
Location: Duvall, WA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

It DO get a bit colorful from time to time don't it!
__________________
Wine Country "Q" Competition BBQ
PNWBA Team of the Year...2011, 2012, & 2013
Founder
Northwest BBQ Society
We cook on MAK Grills , Big Poppa Drum Smokers, & WSM's
Proudly sponsored by Big Poppa Smokers, Kosmo's Q, Simply Marvelous BBQ, and MAK Grills
JD McGee is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-09-2010, 07:31 AM   #57
Goddahavit
is one Smokin' Farker

 
Goddahavit's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-18-08
Location: PA, Fleetwood
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
The Clock and the Temp Probe.....

Has ruined more BBQ than anything in the last decade.


Now if you use them with expertise then good for you but you are not in the majority.

Then there's all the ones that THINK they make good Q (either from never eating any good q at a pagent or a local place or simply because they have a warped sense of what good q is) and THUS also use probes and clocks in complete denial they are ****ing their q.

The two things have ruined in my opinion maybe 1/3 of the world's Brisket supply alone.

I used to say the Internet has ruined it but while bad info (or too much conflicting good info) has ruined a lot of BBQ,, this forum has proven to give a valuable alignment to the myths and bad practices of bad Q. Kind of like Mental Retardation is on the down slide while Autism is on the up. In other words we do it right and all the others **** it up... the worse internet contributors being so called "chefs" writing for recipe.com sites.

Now discuss.
This is the part, that I find troubling, personally i have this issue, any suggestions aside form a trip to your place to remedy the never eaten good Q?
Not that i'm opposed to a trip......

Weather mine is good or not, is undetermined, but I find it difficult to order Q anyplace, I am continually disappointed, and brisket, don't get me started on where in PA to find a good brisket, it is difficult for me to make a brisket when I have never tasted a good one.

I might have to disagree though on the clock and temp probe being the real issues.
To me the real issues are people being stubborn, or not understand what is meant when they are told to probe, or feel. It takes a lot of cooking to develop and understand done, (for me anyway) people are stubborn or not willing to spend the money on cooking large amounts of meat.

I have personally made the mistake of telling people when its going to be done, only to be serving burgers and dogs because its not ready and they are unwilling to wait, lesson learned, done early resting long before the time people are expecting to eat.

Its done when its done, so have coolers or cambros ready.....and be done early, rather than late.

Thanks for he discussion.

Eric
__________________
Fire & Spice Cook Team
Backwoods Authorized Dealer
fireandspicebbq@gmail.com
Backyard Jambo
Stump's Stretch
Bubba Keg
Meadowcreek PR60
Weber WSM
Old weber gasser
Uuni pellet fired pizza oven
Goddahavit is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-29-2010, 09:42 PM   #58
barbefunkoramaque
Babbling Farker
 
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goddahavit View Post
This is the part, that I find troubling, personally i have this issue, any suggestions aside form a trip to your place to remedy the never eaten good Q?
Not that i'm opposed to a trip......

Weather mine is good or not, is undetermined, but I find it difficult to order Q anyplace, I am continually disappointed, and brisket, don't get me started on where in PA to find a good brisket, it is difficult for me to make a brisket when I have never tasted a good one.

I might have to disagree though on the clock and temp probe being the real issues.
To me the real issues are people being stubborn, or not understand what is meant when they are told to probe, or feel. It takes a lot of cooking to develop and understand done, (for me anyway) people are stubborn or not willing to spend the money on cooking large amounts of meat.

I have personally made the mistake of telling people when its going to be done, only to be serving burgers and dogs because its not ready and they are unwilling to wait, lesson learned, done early resting long before the time people are expecting to eat.

Its done when its done, so have coolers or cambros ready.....and be done early, rather than late.

Thanks for he discussion.

Eric

And thank you for the contemplative response
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent
barbefunkoramaque is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 06-26-2011, 01:25 PM   #59
sandiegobbq
is one Smokin' Farker
 
sandiegobbq's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-22-11
Location: chula vista, ca
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

This is an excellent thread.

When I started to cook bbq about 11 years ago, I had a few mentors.

I started by using a WSM.

One of them was quite anal about using only 225 degree temperature.

To the point that if it didn't get to that temp he was slightly lost and panicked.

I thought it was excessive but I did it and it helped me learn how to control my fire.

I believe that having a certain acceptable range for different meats is the logical thing to do.

I think most people try to keep their temps relatively low for ribs.

For briskets and pork butts I have had good results with different temps all over the map with high temps working quite well.

For someone just starting out, guidelines will at least give them some sense of control.

The key to know is that the best cooks are always experimenting and what worked last time won't necessarily work this time.

With experience I have found that times and temperatures can vary greatly especially with briskets.

Every piece of meat is a different animal and some may have tougher muscles or more fat or less fat much like humans lol.

Every piece of brisket needs to be approached on its own as if you are doing it for the first time and yes, it is done when it is done.

I think what some may worry about opening up the smoker too often to poke and check it if is done by feeling. Probably afraid that you will lose temperature control or maybe get a dry product by opening it too often.

Again, have a certain guideline may give you a range that you think it is done.

Nailing it at just the right time to take it out of the smoker along with the proper resting time with precision is not going to be found by reading a thermometer, it is going to be done with your own experience.

That my friends is a much more valuable tool than a 10K dollar smoker, an expensive thermometer or a rolex watch to get your times right.
sandiegobbq is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 06-26-2011, 02:29 PM   #60
Pitmaster T
Babbling Farker
 
Pitmaster T's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-03-11
Location: Dickinson, Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

yo baby pop... well said

therms have their place.... tri tip, prime rib, and some parts of the chicken
Pitmaster T is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Straightening A Temperature Probe el_matt Q-talk 4 10-03-2011 08:04 AM
Suggestions for a good pit temperature probe? RedRyderBBQ Q-talk 9 08-07-2011 04:45 PM
Temperature Probe smokeyw Q-talk 2 01-28-2011 09:45 AM
Temperature probe w/ rotisserie SmokeWatcher Q-talk 8 11-16-2009 06:59 AM
Where do YOU put your Temperature Probe???? gotwood Q-talk 9 10-26-2008 10:29 AM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts