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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.

View Poll Results: What should KCBS focus on?
large contests 14 19.44%
small contests 18 25.00%
both - explain how 40 55.56%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 05-17-2010, 06:52 PM   #16
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Big contests bring the bigger sponsors... which then allow you to fund all the educational exploits to help grow the smaller events. I think you have to have both.
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Unread 05-18-2010, 12:00 AM   #17
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I voted for both. Andy ^^^^^ put it pretty good.

The big comps with the big pay-outs are great publicity for our sport - you know the ones I mean: "So & So wins GC at XYZ's $100,000.00 BBQ contest". That headline brings in even more sponsers, teams and dollars to the game.
But what about "Fred's ECB BBQ Team"? The guy that's just starting out and can't afford, or justify, spending a grand to enter a contest? We need the smaller comps to get the teams formed up, entered and having fun at a comp before they decide to go "whole hog".
Think of the smaller comps as the minor leagues and the bigger ones the majors. How many teams just jumped in with both feet at a major comp? Yeah, I know that there are some, but most cooks started out thinking "Well, I'll give this a try & see what happens". Then they get a call or two & they're hooked on this crazy game called BBQ.
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Unread 05-18-2010, 12:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Slamdunkpro View Post
The cynical view.

KCBS wants to be NASCAR. It's becoming all about the money. The direction that I'm seeing is to go to "Superstar" big money made for TV (possible invitation only) comps just like what happened to poker a few years ago. KCBS's only interest in local events it twofold:
  • Judging classes - Where the bulk of new KCBS members come from IMHO. Every class generates $40 per student in additional voting members that may or may not have more than a casual interest in KCBS itself. These members probably only stay for a year or two but they serve to dilute the voting pool.
  • Dead Money Competitors - Dead money is another poker term for those that enter events but have no shot at the major overall prizes. In KCBS's case, TOY. They want the fees from those casual 2-3 comps per year teams.
Other than that, don't call us, we'll call you.

There was a good point about KCBS committees brought up during the last election . What members are actually on these committees and how does the general membership get involved. I don't believe these questions were ever answered. Truthfully, I don't think KCBS really wants general membership involvement (other than dues)

Remember that not for profit and (non-charitable) non-profits are allowed to generate revenue and disperse it as they see fit and long as they don't pay dividends. Somebody is making money off all this revenue coming in.
Kind of what I was trying to get at on the MABA call last week... Only not as articulate.
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Unread 05-18-2010, 09:52 AM   #19
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I should learn to read before voting. I read the thread topic and immediately chose large comps because that appears to be the way KCBS is headed.

My actual position is that there is no reason that all of the above cannot be accomplished. The KCBS mission is "to celebrate, teach, preserve, and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form. We want barbeque to be recognized as America's Cuisine". If that is truly the mission, success will not be achieved with just one or the other. There wil be growing pains aplenty and like it or not change happens. Change will have to be managed by the duly elected BOD and we as members have to become active participants and have the responsibility to elect the best, monitor the results and change as needed.

Basically, achieving our goal comes down to marketing. There are 2 levels.
1. We have to effectively market BBQ as a sport to sponsors to keep the sport alive. I think KCBS is doing a pretty good job here.
2. We need to market BBQ as a life style because it is truly "America's Cuisine". All of the pics on this forum alone of parents and children BBQing together are a testament to the importance of maintaining certain American traditions - especially ones that bring families closer. Marketing BBQ as a lifestyle needs the smaller comp/community involvement apsect. In today's fast paced society, the most effective marketing is local. We no longer live in a time with 3 tv stations where big ads were about all it took. Marketing in today's environment requires action or as Levinson coined, Guerilla Marketing. I see the larger comps, tv shows etc as old model paid advertising - less effective at getting the message out than it once was but still effective at reaching a large group and delivering parts of your message. That makes Promoting / supporting the smaller local comps and community involvement guerilla style community marketing. Just like building a business, we have to employ a comprehensive marketing / PR strategy to achieve our mission.

So, I say all of the above.
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Unread 05-18-2010, 10:16 AM   #20
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I think we need both as a new member and new judge. I'm striving to make better Q for me and mine. I don't see myself competing any time soon.
That said there are a lot of Non profit hospitals that make huge money, its all about dividends that not being paid. Yes the money is out there and has to be recycled into KCBS how and where will become even more contentious over time.
As a sport there is one perspective, its a competition. Be it a 'sand lot' or 'Yankee stadium.' I personally am disgusted with how sports evolve into the big money contracts over/instead of love of the game. I could go into a rant but...

Is our goal goal to promote egos or BBQ. I'm not dissing our winners not by a long shot the ones here (the only ones I 'know') are extremely generous with sharing their knowledge and experience.

At MN in May there were probably 30-40% new judges. (Popped my Judge cherry) I didn't get much of chance to talk to the teams, couldn't before judging and everyone looked either busy or tired afterwards. The rigs I saw damn. I'm having trouble just hiding some money aside to finish my UDS. I know its not the cooker its the cook but looking at some of the setups you have to wonder if that isn't what we tell ourselves.

Will KCBS embrace the Brethren motto? And maybe that is the challenge and question for them. And also for US, do we want KCBS to be more like the Brethren?
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Unread 05-18-2010, 12:15 PM   #21
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I had to go back and read the Welcome page again after your post...Thanks, it was a warm fuzzy moment! In my opinion, there should be plenty of KCBS room for big, small and backyard contests. Big and small educational type events as part of and separate from contests should be accomodated too. Kids are important, too, they are the future.
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Unread 05-27-2010, 11:39 AM   #22
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i voted for BOTH, small and Big.

The reasoning is simple.. Small contests turn into bigger contests each year.

The attendance at our Sayville contest increased by 30% each year. Ignore the small contests, and let them die off due to lack of attention and support and all that will be left are the standard established contests with no new blood or growth.
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Unread 05-27-2010, 12:05 PM   #23
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I voted both because it is probably the best means for them to achieve their commitment and stated to IRS purpose of education.

Until it is decided to abandon the not for profit status the focus should be on education and the contests should simply be one of the means for fulfillig that purpose.
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Unread 05-27-2010, 05:16 PM   #24
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I certainly like to see the big comps for some of the top guns. I also like to attend those to spectate. On the other hand, I would love to see more comps with some smaller buy ins for the poor folk like me that can only afford one or two a year.

Or get the sponsors to do some type of "scholarship" or similar entry fee sponsorship program for teams that don't win a ton of GC or RGC. Drawing the line as to who, and who wouldn't be eligible for help would be tough. Possibly by allowing them to payback the buy ins from any winnings?
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Unread 05-27-2010, 08:08 PM   #25
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I think they are heading towards eliminating smaller contests in their entirety. With the TLC show and the mega-mega contests, the smalelr contests are getting the short end of the stick.
Tim McMaster - Porter Mac's Rockin' BBQ - Recently converted Pellet-Head
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Unread 05-27-2010, 08:16 PM   #26
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I voted for both. I think just because you grow your business to th point where you have large customers, doesn't mean you should forget the little people who got you where you are. Like Andy said, subsidise the small contests with the earnings from the large ones. It shouldn't be hard to put a business model together that would do that.

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Unread 05-27-2010, 11:31 PM   #27
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I voted for both. The Board would have to be populated by the biggest fools this side of Washington to drop the small contests in favor of the big ones. Every successful, major sports/competition league knows you need a development system to bring in new talent year after year, or the product grows stale quickly.

I do agree with those who have said that we will some day see a circuit of invitation-only, big money contests. I see nothing wrong with that, as long as enough attention is paid to the smaller contests and us peons (who hope someday to be invited to the new big money contests).

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Unread 05-28-2010, 09:17 AM   #28
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A couple of questions...

First off, what is a smaller contest?

What makes people think that KCBS is some how eliminating or even moving towards eliminating "smaller" contests?

Seems like new contests are sanctioned each year, some make it and some dont. I havent seen anything by KCBS that makes it more difficult to be sanctioned or anything else that would hurt someone's chances of becoming sanctioned.

What can KCBS specifically do to support smaller contests?

I am all for helping improve the quality of contests from the bottom up. Providing support and funds to get power and water at every contest would be my top priority.
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Unread 05-28-2010, 08:25 PM   #29
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I basically cook just a few comps a year. Last year, I was only able to do two, 1 KCBS,and 1 FBA. I did help out another team with totaled abt 17 in all.

I tend to only do the smaller events only to help my odds of hopefully getting a decent score to be in the middle of the pack, which I have so far been able to do. Now if there were only "larger" comps, lets say the aforementioned 100 teams, most likely I would be in the bottom 20% give or take a few places. Do you think I would continue competing? Most likely not. So that is why I support the smaller comps. It gives us smaller teams that only due a few a year a place to go and at least have room to spread our elbows out, and have a good time. The large ones are nice, don't get me wrong, but I just don't feel all the comfy there when all of the larger teams that win week after week are there which only makes it harder for me to even want to try... give the small events a boost.

And after reading more, yes, get a push on the backyard teams, who will one day most likely move up to the pro division later on.
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Unread 05-29-2010, 03:11 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by BBQchef33 View Post
i voted for BOTH, small and Big.

The reasoning is simple.. Small contests turn into bigger contests each year.

The attendance at our Sayville contest increased by 30% each year. Ignore the small contests, and let them die off due to lack of attention and support and all that will be left are the standard established contests with no new blood or growth.
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