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Unread 12-17-2009, 05:04 PM   #46
Bbq Bubba
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A free reach around?
Thats why i joined, Jeff promised me one.
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Unread 12-17-2009, 05:38 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Skip View Post
Thats why I was saying that you need to charge a premium to non member teams. I really didn't care about the KCBS when I started. It was just something that was there and I question whether I would even be a member now if it weren't for the need to join to be a certified judge. I really don't think I would've no matter how much I appreciated BBQ or liked how KCBS promoted or ran contests. That stuff really would've been a non issue and i would have contined to participate in KCBS events and reaped the benefits FOR THE SAME COST as member teams.
Now once I joined the KCBS I became curious as to what it was all about. Heck if I am paying for a membership I might as well become familiar with it. So I did. Now I am very much involved in what goes on. I am going to the banquet as well and there I will attend the rules committee meeting and possibly others. I appreciate my membership and what it does for me. I also appreciate that my money goes to this organization and what my money helps it do.
KCBS doesn't save starving people in Africa so you aren't going to get people to just fork over money for the principle. KCBS membership doesn't afford you discounts at sanctioned events so you won't get thrifty competitors to jump on board. KCBS offers some perks but many of them aren't all encompassing for the membership nor do some of them even apply to membership in areas without the business i.e. Restaurant Depot. Any kind of perk related to membership would help if it applies to everyone. If KCBS provided meats the members could chose first or if meat was supplied then the KCBS members would get reduced rates. Money makes it all happen.
I think they key is the perk has to come from KCBS.... Not a contest. These events are paying the KCBS for a service - the sanctioning and judging machine. They are usually not worried about increasing the KCBS membership... I wouldnt expect an organizer to charge a KCBS member less. But I do agree, that if there were some type of perks.... even something as simple as ice chits that the KCBS funds back out of thier sanctioning fee or something.... that would add a KCBS benefit that drives more competitive cooks to join.

I think what has to happen is a little different. I think they need to continue to go to all the non BBQ events/festivals... use the tour trailer to its max potential... and get non competitive folks joining.... as they look at the site, and learn -- they will also learn about competitive BBQ... and that will drive new competitive cooks.
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Unread 12-17-2009, 05:56 PM   #48
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I pay my money just for the Bull Sheet, everybody here likes to read it. It is pretty crappy that you can't even get a free bumper sticker. But the RD membership is almost priceless if you don't have a business.
I got a "BBQ" oval bumper/window sticker!

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Originally Posted by Skip View Post
I think that the fee for non KCBS member teams should be more then the membership. This would definitely push people to join. Also as I mentioned maybe the family membership should apply to a team membership.
Skip - we have to come up with something else. KCBS is not organizing these events. For example, if the rotary is a beneficiary of the event - and organizing it... they are worried about thier organization, not KCBS.
They are only using KCBS for the service they are paying KCBS to provide.
A perfect example is the APWA -- they host a contest, and part of the entry fee is your membership to thier organization. ABA (American Bass Anglers) does this as well.... These organizers have no responsiblity at all to help boost KCBS Membership - they have their own organizations/charities that they would support first. KCBS is providing a paid service. If they wanted to boost membership from the event, there needs to be some other visible/viable perk from KCBS -- not the event.
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Unread 12-17-2009, 06:11 PM   #49
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My only comment is it allows you to bitch about any and everything that goes on. It also allows you to actually make a difference in how the contests are run by exercising your vote and to participate in the BOD meeting by requesting the right.

The next time a subject about how a contest is run comes up, please refain from posting unless you are a dues paying member of the organization that make a difference in competition BBQ.

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Unread 12-17-2009, 06:16 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
Thats why I was saying that you need to charge a premium to non member teams. I really didn't care about the KCBS when I started. It was just something that was there and I question whether I would even be a member now if it weren't for the need to join to be a certified judge. I really don't think I would've no matter how much I appreciated BBQ or liked how KCBS promoted or ran contests. That stuff really would've been a non issue and i would have contined to participate in KCBS events and reaped the benefits FOR THE SAME COST as member teams.
Now once I joined the KCBS I became curious as to what it was all about. Heck if I am paying for a membership I might as well become familiar with it. So I did. Now I am very much involved in what goes on. I am going to the banquet as well and there I will attend the rules committee meeting and possibly others. I appreciate my membership and what it does for me. I also appreciate that my money goes to this organization and what my money helps it do.
KCBS doesn't save starving people in Africa so you aren't going to get people to just fork over money for the principle. KCBS membership doesn't afford you discounts at sanctioned events so you won't get thrifty competitors to jump on board. KCBS offers some perks but many of them aren't all encompassing for the membership nor do some of them even apply to membership in areas without the business i.e. Restaurant Depot. Any kind of perk related to membership would help if it applies to everyone. If KCBS provided meats the members could chose first or if meat was supplied then the KCBS members would get reduced rates. Money makes it all happen.
Skip 2 years ago that was put in place - an additional $25 per contest for non members - the annual meeting had the organizers and cooks going crazy over it - it was removed the following month. There are actually some contests that still do it, especially those on the East Coast who understood the concept.
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Unread 12-17-2009, 08:04 PM   #51
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I think the concept is great, but most organizers would use that extra $ for thier charity, prize pot, etc...


The challenge would be for KCBS to come up with a benefit, that would have relevance to everyone entering the competition vs. putting it on the organizers of the events.

As was noted in someone elses example, a guy cooking 1 contest a year (probably entering due to his/her affiliation with the organization/charity) may not see the value... and at the end of the day... the organizers are trying to show value to all entrants. and not penalize folks that are entering for reasons other than the KCBS sanctioning.

I do think we could come up with something.... but it will likely need to be a little out of the box... and appeal to more than just the "competitive" set -- to give the organizers a reason to see it as a value for all the folks that enter their events for whatever reason... Or they need to roll it up into a different program... like providing a code for a discounted entry for cooking at a sanctioned contest.... or offering a discounted entry at the end of the cooks meeting... etc....
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Unread 12-17-2009, 08:28 PM   #52
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What is this KCBS you speak of?

small budget teams (i resemble that remark) far out number the big budget teams.

I do it because I enjoy cooking, i enjoy competing, and I enjoy the fellowship

Like others I will compete in 1/2 a dozen or less contests a year, mostly in the Southeast (home of REAL bbq ), and I have yet to read anything in here that would make me want to join KCBS.
I spend more than 35.00 on beer for a good weekend of Q'n so the money is not the issue.

What is in it for me?
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Unread 12-17-2009, 08:45 PM   #53
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I think they should do what they have been doing, at least here in this part of the country. KCBS contests have grown rapidly and now we even have a state championship series where before we barely had any contests three or four years ago. Contest entries have grown rapidly as well. I think that KCBS membership is up the couple of years, but could not find where I had read that. I think they are attracting more cooks.

I do think that membership should be required. I can't think of anywhere else that membership in the sanctioning body isn't required to compete in a sanctioned event. Interesting Ford that you assumed a 50% membership, that based on just observations over the years? Wonder if its even that high.........There are ways that membership can be mandated, organizers fees could be based on membership percentage or something to that effect. If a nominal membership fee is going to be too steep, you are probably in the wrong hobby anyway. Buck up and pay it, its the cheapest thing at a comp.

For people that live in areas where another sanctioning body is present, they may not get anything out of KCBS and may be better off with their own local sanctioning body, but the KCBS is far more national than the majority of other organizations.
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Unread 12-17-2009, 09:20 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
Maybe they need to offer as "lifetime" membership. Or a 5 year membership. This might help with the people who do maybe two contests a year. I think that the fee for non KCBS member teams should be more then the membership. This would definitely push people to join. Also as I mentioned maybe the family membership should apply to a team membership.
We are already working on a lifetime membership as a matter of fact... it was a topic at the last board meeting.... may happen real soon
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Unread 12-17-2009, 09:38 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake View Post
I think they should do what they have been doing, at least here in this part of the country. KCBS contests have grown rapidly and now we even have a state championship series where before we barely had any contests three or four years ago. Contest entries have grown rapidly as well. I think that KCBS membership is up the couple of years, but could not find where I had read that. I think they are attracting more cooks.

I do think that membership should be required. I can't think of anywhere else that membership in the sanctioning body isn't required to compete in a sanctioned event. Interesting Ford that you assumed a 50% membership, that based on just observations over the years? Wonder if its even that high.........There are ways that membership can be mandated, organizers fees could be based on membership percentage or something to that effect. If a nominal membership fee is going to be too steep, you are probably in the wrong hobby anyway. Buck up and pay it, its the cheapest thing at a comp.

For people that live in areas where another sanctioning body is present, they may not get anything out of KCBS and may be better off with their own local sanctioning body, but the KCBS is far more national than the majority of other organizations.
In all those other cases, the sanctioning body shares in the profit/loss of the event.... with marketing $$, overall purse money, guaranteed TV time, etc. etc. In these events... the sanctioning is paid for as a service... and the event is there usually to raise money or awareness for some other sponsored function. The organizer has to take care of their organization and sponsors first, since that is where the $$ comes from.... then KCBS second. I think it would be awesome if KCBS came up with a way to draw the small cooks in with some value at a higher level.... and use the cookoff as a way to get that upsell. But when an Organizer is paying KCBS for sanctioning, and KCBS has no skin in the game for prize money guarantees.... you can't really expect an organizer to add something in. I would expect them to give KCBS a tent to set up and pimp the society to all at the event... and work membership drives at that level... selling on the value that they provide. (membership, contest list, access to recipes, and other cook team info (if they have bios submitted) and the bullsheet)...
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Unread 12-17-2009, 09:40 PM   #56
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We are already working on a lifetime membership as a matter of fact... it was a topic at the last board meeting.... may happen real soon
That is a great idea... I know I procrastinate keeping my dues up, but i imagine we lose alot of members just to attrition from the annual dues and forgetting to pay... or changing email address etc. and they lose that contact/touchpoint.
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Unread 12-17-2009, 10:16 PM   #57
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What if there was some bonus money available to the winner if they were a KCBS member. It would need to be paid by the KCBS and not the orginizer of corse. Lets say the winner gets a $100 bonus but 3 new people joined the kCBS for a shot of the bonus so the KCBS just made there money back and got three new members. This may not make sence at some smaller contests but at the royal for instance it could be hundreds in bonus money and lead to a lot of new members. I know its not exactly the same thing but there sure was a lot of people using Kingsford Comp. at the royal to try to double there money. Or maybe its not winning based but a drawling by the KCBS reps of every KCBS team at the event, That way you don't even have to be a good cook the be eligible to win the bonus. You just have to be a member to be eligible. What do you guys think?
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Unread 12-17-2009, 10:38 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by moocow View Post
What if there was some bonus money available to the winner if they were a KCBS member. It would need to be paid by the KCBS and not the orginizer of corse. Lets say the winner gets a $100 bonus but 3 new people joined the kCBS for a shot of the bonus so the KCBS just made there money back and got three new members. This may not make sence at some smaller contests but at the royal for instance it could be hundreds in bonus money and lead to a lot of new members. I know its not exactly the same thing but there sure was a lot of people using Kingsford Comp. at the royal to try to double there money. Or maybe its not winning based but a drawling by the KCBS reps of every KCBS team at the event, That way you don't even have to be a good cook the be eligible to win the bonus. You just have to be a member to be eligible. What do you guys think?
There we go!! something that KCBS can do in conjunction with the event.. but it has standalone value as something KCBS - and it could draw in new cooks that are curious...
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Unread 12-17-2009, 11:00 PM   #59
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Skip 2 years ago that was put in place - an additional $25 per contest for non members - the annual meeting had the organizers and cooks going crazy over it - it was removed the following month. There are actually some contests that still do it, especially those on the East Coast who understood the concept.
The 'concept' was basically derived from KCBS not being able to charge the extra funds themselves due to their tax status.....correct???Sooooo, since KCBS couldn't charge the funds and DEMAND that any team cooking a KCBS sanctioned contest WITHOUT being a member doesn't pan with the tax man, they decided to 'put it on the organizers'. Personally, the knee jerk reactions are a bit tiresome. How about the Board get off their respective asses and actually do something productive THEMSELVES instead of trying to pass the buck?
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Unread 12-18-2009, 08:41 AM   #60
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In all those other cases, the sanctioning body shares in the profit/loss of the event.... with marketing $$, overall purse money, guaranteed TV time, etc. etc. In these events... the sanctioning is paid for as a service... and the event is there usually to raise money or awareness for some other sponsored function. The organizer has to take care of their organization and sponsors first, since that is where the $$ comes from.... then KCBS second. I think it would be awesome if KCBS came up with a way to draw the small cooks in with some value at a higher level.... and use the cookoff as a way to get that upsell. But when an Organizer is paying KCBS for sanctioning, and KCBS has no skin in the game for prize money guarantees.... you can't really expect an organizer to add something in. I would expect them to give KCBS a tent to set up and pimp the society to all at the event... and work membership drives at that level... selling on the value that they provide. (membership, contest list, access to recipes, and other cook team info (if they have bios submitted) and the bullsheet)...
yes and no. When I was playing rugby in order to compete in our league everyone on our team had to be a member of USA Rugby which had no direct involvement with the league and was in no way sharing in the profit or loss. The same went with tournaments, all team members were required to have a vaild membership card but the tournaments were completely separate and not run by or administered by USA Rugby. The same type of thing I believe happens with golf. In order to compete in a even their own club tournament, players are required to be USGA members. USGA sanctions these contests but doesn't share in the prize money or expenses.

All that being said, mandatory membership may be good for increasing membership but is not addressing the original idea of this thread which is what does it take to recruit cooks. I think that you are right in that more things are going to be needed in order to make it worthwhile to join. I think that KCBS does and outstanding job ( for the most part, there are always exceptions) with the way contests are organized and run it is going to take more than that to attract cooks especially in regions where there may be more than one sanctioning body. It would be nice to get more bennies with membership but isn't that the case with everything?
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