KCBS Involvement

manmeatbbq said:
I definitely think this is a great start. However, I do think every judge should have a date of last certification and be required to re-certify on a set basis, whether it be every 2 years or whatever. If their certification date is beyond that, then they aren't a certified judge, which would tend to keep them from judging many contests. I don't know that a complete online re-certification will cure some judges, but it definitely can't hurt as a start.

Where the training breaks down most of the time is when an instructor provides their opinion as answers to some questions. Removing this opinion from the instructor is the challenge that KCBS has to help level the playing field. Again, you can't change taste buds or the quality of the turn-in, but you can at least make sure all the judges are starting from the same frame of mind, or framework, when it comes to scoring. This, I think, is what all the cooks are really looking for.
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What would a mandatory re-certification involve? In my area judging classes are not that frequent, and I would think that re-certification would not require as much time as initial certification.... traveling 500 miles to a re-certification site might not be that popular and be hard to mandate. However, at every competition, you have a room full of judges. Could time be set aside before judge check-in or between 2pm and the award announcement for some sort of re-certification? If re-certification involved an exam the Reps could assign a proctor for that task.


midwest_kc said:
Agreed. Honestly, that's why I think that the bulk of the training should be online. That's the only way to control the training, and control the information given to judges.
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I agree with the online option. Standardization is the key. People absorb information differently, so a written manual, a Power Point, and/or a video with narration are all good choices.

Slamdunkpro said:
This really needs to happen along with some type of closed book certification test. Think about this If you are a CBJ and become a KCBS life member you are a valid CBJ forever.
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I suppose you could cheat or have the rules and Judges Handbook in front of you when taking any online test including the current practice test, but they could incorporate a timer to discourage that. Have you taken the online practice test, and if so... what did you think of the caliber of the questions themselves?
 
DUBBAGA said:
If I run for (and get elected) to the Board in 2020, my only platform issue will be the immediate implementation of a real-time judge correction
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Tbh. I have watched you post on this board for years now and I don’t think you have the right mindset to be an effective board member. You would be better served to be on the judging committee and implement change there.
 
bigdogphin said:
Tbh. I have watched you post on this board for years now and I don’t think you have the right mindset to be an effective board member. You would be better served to be on the judging committee and implement change there.
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I couldn't agree more :mrgreen:. At least now, when friends ask me if I'm going to run, I'll direct them to this thread :thumb:
 
tduffy said:
What does that judge seating program have anything to do with calling out ****ty judges?
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The judge seating program and counseling judges about their scoring while judging is still in progress are both examples of KCBS having a direct impact on the results of the contest.

I formed my opinion about counseling or removing judges during the first year of Sam's Club. At the Austin local I believe two judges were dismissed due to low scores. Afterwards it came up while I was around a very well known, and successful cook, that I know you know. He wasn't pleased and his rational was that every team should have had the opportunity to hit that same table. I can't argue with that logic. I believe that the same applies to counseling a judge about their scoring during judging. If they adjust, every entry they judged prior is at a disadvantage. The organization responsible for administering a fair and unbiased contest will have a direct impact on the outcome.

Based on your posts, you believe that judge seating is a train wreck. I haven't researched the results enough to pick a side in that debate. I don't support seating judges based on their scoring average for a number of reasons, but what I personally believe isn't relevant here. By seating the judges KCBS is having a direct impact on the results. In your public opinion it's a negative impact. In the opinion of those that support the policy it's positive. What can't be debated is that KCBS has a direct impact, either positive or negative, on the outcome of the contest.

If influencing a judge to change their scoring is fair game, deciding where judges sit based on HOW THEY SCORE should be as well.

Finally, before getting back to work, my initial post wasn't directed at you specifically. You've been vocal about these issues and it's representative of the way a lot of people feel. If you took it any other way, feel free to shoot me a PM.
 
Jorge said:
The judge seating program and counseling judges about their scoring while judging is still in progress are both examples of KCBS having a direct impact on the results of the contest.

I formed my opinion about counseling or removing judges during the first year of Sam's Club. At the Austin local I believe two judges were dismissed due to low scores. Afterwards it came up while I was around a very well known, and successful cook, that I know you know. He wasn't pleased and his rational was that every team should have had the opportunity to hit that same table. I can't argue with that logic. I believe that the same applies to counseling a judge about their scoring during judging. If they adjust, every entry they judged prior is at a disadvantage. The organization responsible for administering a fair and unbiased contest will have a direct impact on the outcome.

Based on your posts, you believe that judge seating is a train wreck. I haven't researched the results enough to pick a side in that debate. I don't support seating judges based on their scoring average for a number of reasons, but what I personally believe isn't relevant here. By seating the judges KCBS is having a direct impact on the results. In your public opinion it's a negative impact. In the opinion of those that support the policy it's positive. What can't be debated is that KCBS has a direct impact, either positive or negative, on the outcome of the contest.

If influencing a judge to change their scoring is fair game, deciding where judges sit based on HOW THEY SCORE should be as well.

Finally, before getting back to work, my initial post wasn't directed at you specifically. You've been vocal about these issues and it's representative of the way a lot of people feel. If you took it any other way, feel free to shoot me a PM.
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I don't think we should pull a judge during the contest. But afterwards they should have a talkin to. And if the problem continues they should no longer be able to judge. After talking to people about this particular judge, I've been told both her and her husband are known bad judges who have been in trouble before. These types of judges need to go.
 
tduffy said:
I don't think we should pull a judge during the contest. But afterwards they should have a talkin to. And if the problem continues they should no longer be able to judge. After talking to people about this particular judge, I've been told both her and her husband are known bad judges who have been in trouble before. These types of judges need to go.
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I don't disagree.

Whether it's a judge issue, a team suspected of violating rules, or whatever else may come up if more cooks would report this stuff to Reps more could be done. If a Rep can't, or won't, do anything then the cook needs to take it to the office and/or board.

A classic example from my time on the board was an email about another team cheating. It wasn't reported to the Rep at the contest, the individual writing me the email wouldn't send their email to the entire board, and didn't want to be identified. But they did want me to have that team banned. All I could do was find out where the alleged cheater cooked and send a heads up to the Reps that generally covered contests where they cooked.

The other side of the coin is that I know of a couple of instances where judges stated opinions that were contrary to what is taught in CBJ classes. One in particular was a judge stating that if a box didn't have burnt ends he was deducting points. Reps were notified, judge was talked to, judge claimed to have seen the light. Whether their future scores reflected that I have no way of knowing. Somebody said something, and something was done.

Again not directed at you personally.
 
I'm mulling the list of candidates over. If you haven't looked, it can be found at the link below. If somebody has a candidate they believe would make a difference I'd be interested in learning more. There are a lot of candidates I know nothing about other than their answers to the standard questions.


https://kcbs.us/news_manager.php?page=17482
 
Jorge said:
I'm mulling the list of candidates over. If you haven't looked, it can be found at the link below. If somebody has a candidate they believe would make a difference I'd be interested in learning more. There are a lot of candidates I know nothing about other than their answers to the standard questions.


https://kcbs.us/news_manager.php?page=17482
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I know David McAllister would make a great fit for the Board. He shares the same view as many of us. He is level headed and currently works in technology doing programming. Had he been on the Board prior to the technology update that happened, his voice in having the system tested would have been communicated. He is very respected on the BBQ circuit and understands what we go through as cooks. He has a great passion for our "sport" and wants to make sure that the KCBS organization moves forward in a way to grow that passion for others and provide for a fair assessment of our burnt offerings.

We all would be lucky to have David as a Board member.
 
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Reactions: SOB
Just as an ending of this story for me, I as a judge will gladly take any continued education action, I will continue to help out with our area CBJ training class, I will if brought to my attention that a judge is not judging according to KCBS rules and procedures take immediate action with the KCBS Rep whether it's a matter of speaking to the judge after judging up to recommending the judge be replaced immediately due to what was said/done.
Note to cook teams, I am not the only judge to feel this way. The majority of judges are there to enjoy the sport and give their best. But just like less than perfect cooks we have less than perfect judges.
Keep the faith all.
Ed
 
ModelMaker said:
Just as an ending of this story for me, I as a judge will gladly take any continued education action, I will continue to help out with our area CBJ training class, I will if brought to my attention that a judge is not judging according to KCBS rules and procedures take immediate action with the KCBS Rep whether it's a matter of speaking to the judge after judging up to recommending the judge be replaced immediately due to what was said/done.
Note to cook teams, I am not the only judge to feel this way. The majority of judges are there to enjoy the sport and give their best. But just like less than perfect cooks we have less than perfect judges.
Keep the faith all.
Ed
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Ed,

This is a great comment. First off, thank you for providing us cooks a fair and reasonable assessment of our offerings. I think we all can agree that the vast majority of cooks and judges feel the same way. And while we can't keep the occasional rogue judge or extremely biased cook from the sport, having a well defined process from KCBS that keeps all judges as fresh as possible is what most are clamoring for.
 
Jorge said:
I'm mulling the list of candidates over. If you haven't looked, it can be found at the link below. If somebody has a candidate they believe would make a difference I'd be interested in learning more. There are a lot of candidates I know nothing about other than their answers to the standard questions.


https://kcbs.us/news_manager.php?page=17482
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I voted for Brian Turner (Mutt) as he's a seasoned cook and a good friend.
 
Thanks to those that posted or shared their thoughts via PM.

David McAllister ultimately earned my vote. KCBS has multiple technology issues at the current time and I feel he's the most qualified to address those now and moving forward.
 
How are KCBS members supposed to know there is an election to vote in? If not for the Brethren, I would not know anything about it. I just logged in and voted, but have received no notice from KCBS about the special election. I predict a very low turnout. Is this a super secret election?
 
QN said:
How are KCBS members supposed to know there is an election to vote in? If not for the Brethren, I would not know anything about it. I just logged in and voted, but have received no notice from KCBS about the special election. I predict a very low turnout. Is this a super secret election?
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I got multiple emails. Are you sure your email address is up to date?
 
I got an email on the 27th. Maybe check your junk or spam folder. They are from:

Kansas City Barbeque Society <election@kcbs.us>

And they have full instructions on how to navigate the site and vote:

Welcome to the KCBS 2019 Board of Directors Special Election

The KCBS Online Election Process
The election voting shall begin at 7:00am Central Time on June 24th, 2019 through 7:00pm Central Time on June 30th, 2019.

To vote using the online election, you must first go to kcbs.us and log in. After log in, please make sure that your "My Profile" is correct in the members area, especially state and/or country. If not, please go to “Member Info” and update.

You may review nominees HERE should you have questions of their platforms they are running on. After reviewing nominees, you can click the ENTER VOTING BOOTH to cast your votes for up to one (1) nominee.

If you have already decided, you may go directly to the VOTING BOOTH and cast your vote.

You will NOT be able to go back to the “review nominees” section after you enter the voting booth. if you wish to change your vote, after it is cast but before leaving the page, click the checked box and your vote will be withdrawn allowing you to vote for someone else.

Thank you for your support of KCBS!

 
QN said:
Same email address I have had for more than 25 years. They manage to send my membership renewal invoice every year. Nothing in spam.
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Call the KCBS office. I would want an explanation.
 
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