Deciphering Scoring - What to change to get better results

I asked basically the same question after my first KCBS contest, but in regards to taste (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160942). The general consensus seemed to be, don't mess with too much after only one contest (unless your scores were very bad) because one contest won't give you a baseline.

cpw said:

The general consensus seemed to be, don't mess with too much after only one contest (unless your scores were very bad) because one contest won't give you a baseline.

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One comp isn't enough info. As already posted though, if they were real bad, you want to take action.

How did the judging compare with what you thought? Since you mentioned brisket, did you think the tenderness was off? If you think so too, then get working on it.

Unless your brisket was falling apart, I would doubt the rest time hurt you. My guess is you missed the other way. If the judges can pick up your slice without it falling apart, it's probably not over done. They expect to be able to pick up the slice and pull it apart with little to no effort. Any bit of elasticity could have hurt you. Looks like 6s and 7s on taste as well, so you have that to work on it seems. Brisket should taste.. Beefy, but not like a roast.. life a good piece of steak..but more of it if that makes sense.
On the upside.. sounds like you have some time for some brisket practice.. and that's never a bad thing.
Congrats on your pork call and not DQing on any category.

They have you pretty much covered above, but in addition to this you asked:

> If so, how do you figure out what you are going to go after, and try to improve first.

I've seen many fail at this because they tinkered this way or that way and never compared them. When refining/tinkering with my recipes (or for tenderness, etc.) I always test side-by-side with my previous recipe. Also, with very few exceptions, I've had a small (or large) party help me judge one recipe vs. another. Hearing which one is better (other peoples opinions) is VERY enlightening and helpful. Remember, judges are people too.

Oh, when doing this (above), please make sure that they've had very little or no alcoholic beverages before judging. What you're doing is simulating judging and you want it to be as close to the real thing as possible. Otherwise, more often than not you'll end up with a rather salty recipe (drunks like salt)...

Along with working on tenderness for brisket I would go check out bbqcritic.com and look at a lot of those boxes if you haven't been there yet. Something else you can practice on in the off time is appearance. With three 7's it looks like some room to tighten up that part of the scores. I know appearance was something I could definitely work on while trying to figure out taste and tenderness :-D.

We had the same 3 goals you did, except we actually did finish dead ass last. It was magical pretty magical :becky:. So great job.

Have you judged before? And do you understand what they mean by tenderness, KCBS style? If not, you might want to look into taking a CBJ class, and doing some judging before you tweak, it will give you a better baseline.

Take the class then judge a couple of times as well. That shed more light on things for me than the class did. Make sure to talk to your fellow judges about what they liked, looked for etc. I know that part helped me out quite a bit.

I agree: CBJ class and judging experience will help define things for you quite a bit.

I work both sides of the table as often as I can (judge/cook). I can usually tell within a couple of points how any particular turn in of mine will score.

For brisket tenderness, I rely on two things: Pull test and mouth feel. When I pick up a brisket slice, I pull it apart. As was stated, I should be able to pick it up and wiggle it a little without it falling apart. When I pull on it, there should be some slight elasticity, but pull apart easily and cleanly in a "jigsaw puzzle" pattern. When I bite into it, is it juicy or dry? A dry brisket will get a 6 or 7 from me every time, whereas a juicy brisket will trump a slightly over or undercooked pull-test. Lastly, how much "tooth" do I need to chew the bite? I don't want it so mushy that I don't need teeth, but I also don't want bubble gum consistency.

Now, for those who turn in pulled brisket, I have slightly different criteria. I obviously can't use a pull test, so mouth feel becomes much more important. Is it "dry", "juicy" or "greasy"? There's a difference. "Juicy" is rendered collagens, whereas "greasy" is unrendered fat. Is it mushy or chewy? Again this goes back to "toothiness".

Lastly, Burnt ends: If someone turns in burnt ends with their slices they should be "melt in your mouth" tender. There should be very little toothiness in a burnt end.

Please understand these are MY personal criteria for how I judge tenderness and are not necessarily the consensus of EVERY judge. Though, that said, most judges I know and judge with have similar if not the same criteria for that part of the score.

+1 the judging class, but seriously, class is great, but you'll learn more about what works and what doesnt (and WHY) by actually judging a few competitions. The old "a picture is worth a thousand words" thing...

If you turned in burnt ends that were tough, that would explain your tenderness score right there.. if they aren't going to improve your score leave them out. That goes for all categories. Never put in an optional component that is substandard. I've scored much higher with slices only than with tough burnt ends.

roksmith said:

If you turned in burnt ends that were tough, that would explain your tenderness score right there.. if they aren't going to improve your score leave them out. That goes for all categories. Never put in an optional component that is substandard. I've scored much higher with slices only than with tough burnt ends.

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^^^ Yeah.... that!^^^

When did you Tate the meat? You need to try it at 1:40 or thereabouts. When you do the box prep a couple extra slices and let them sit. Same with burnt ends. Cooling will often tighten up slices and can dry out both slices and burnt ends.

As far as taste scores if you can eat a full slice without complaining about too much salt that's a problem. Judges usually do 1 bite, especially for brisket. They are getting full.

Good points Ford... Remember each box you turn in is (to steal a phrase) a one bite challenge. You aren't looking for good eating bbq.. but a party in their mouth.
For every category, I'd shoot for (ever so) slightly over done at boxing time because they will tighten up as they cool.
For me, at least, with brisket I want my burnt ends to be soft and gooey.. not firm at all and I want the slices to just be holding together when they go in the box.

That 5 is an anomoly. 1x6 3x7 1x8 you have a 4 point spread over all the bulk fell at 7 over all 6.83 is the more less average which rounds to a 7 which the rest of the table agrees with. That 5 looks out of line.