1FUNVET
Babbling Farker
Thanks for all the effort and money you are investing in this project :clap2::clap2:
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I
infernooo
Guest
Even though I will split up the base sauce and try it with some of your suggested additions, could you please suggest:
1.) Which sweetener should I use?
2.) Which flavorings to try and how much of each to add and if possible, which you feel goes best with which meats
h00kemh0rns
Knows what a fatty is.
Not sure if Landarc has seen this so I'm bumping this up. 
landarc
somebody shut me the fark up.
Sorry was out of town. I thought I answered this in a PM.
I would add honey, or if it is easier, golden syrup. Both work. I use honey.
As for flavorings, I would add some ketchup and molasses to make the comparison work. 1/8 cup of each. Or, just use 1/4 cup ketchup as that will give you a nice red sauce. I would add, this is more of a mother sauce, which I often just add stuff to make it work for how I am feeling. It is a sweet and sour base from which I can work. I would say that with the ketchup and/or molasses, it will work best with pork and with beef.
I would add honey, or if it is easier, golden syrup. Both work. I use honey.
As for flavorings, I would add some ketchup and molasses to make the comparison work. 1/8 cup of each. Or, just use 1/4 cup ketchup as that will give you a nice red sauce. I would add, this is more of a mother sauce, which I often just add stuff to make it work for how I am feeling. It is a sweet and sour base from which I can work. I would say that with the ketchup and/or molasses, it will work best with pork and with beef.
Erin
Knows what a fatty is.
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This is an awesome thread for a newbie to read. I've been wondering about homemade sauces, but I haven't had the time to research it so I have been using grocery store bottled sauces (gasp!). I am so glad the thread got back on track as I loved the very first introduction and idea. I am sooooo inexperienced! Thank you infernoo and BBQchef33.
Big D BBQ
Knows what a fatty is.
Sauce
They say necessity is the mother of all inventions.
Low on sauce about a year ago, and roughly measured 1/3 of each in a bowl, mixed it up, and damn. Mighty fine sauce. I really like it on grilled shrimp and chicken, but have tried it on Pork as well. Wouldn't use it on Brisket.
They say necessity is the mother of all inventions.
Low on sauce about a year ago, and roughly measured 1/3 of each in a bowl, mixed it up, and damn. Mighty fine sauce. I really like it on grilled shrimp and chicken, but have tried it on Pork as well. Wouldn't use it on Brisket.
Last edited:
h00kemh0rns
Knows what a fatty is.
Infernoo,
How goes the taste tests? Do you have the full list of sauces you plan to taste test?
How goes the taste tests? Do you have the full list of sauces you plan to taste test?
Erin
Knows what a fatty is.
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Do you keep a journal?
I may be harsh, but I have tried a LOT of sauces (http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/infernooo/smoking/beef/CIMG0841_resize.jpg), so my standards are pretty high[/QUOTE]
Hi Infernoo,
Do you keep a journal or some sort of record/notes of all of the bottled sauces that you have tried?
I may be harsh, but I have tried a LOT of sauces (http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/infernooo/smoking/beef/CIMG0841_resize.jpg), so my standards are pretty high
[/QUOTE]Hi Infernoo,
Do you keep a journal or some sort of record/notes of all of the bottled sauces that you have tried?
Erin
Knows what a fatty is.
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Infernoo,
What you are doing is pretty amazing and very interesting to this newbie who has never made a sauce. I received my Traeger for Christmas and I am trying to learn as much as I can. Your sauce experiment is very interesting and enjoyable. Keep up the good work and thank you for all of your hard work.
What you are doing is pretty amazing and very interesting to this newbie who has never made a sauce. I received my Traeger for Christmas and I am trying to learn as much as I can. Your sauce experiment is very interesting and enjoyable. Keep up the good work and thank you for all of your hard work.
I
infernooo
Guest
Next on the list is sauce 6: landarcs!
#6 landarcs Sauce (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1524996&postcount=26)
A Base Recipe:
4 cups vinegar, I use cider or rice vinegar
1/2 piece of nutmeg coarsely crushed
8 to 10 peppercorns, lightly cracked
5 whole cloves, lightly cracked
2 bay leaves cracked in quarters
1/8 stick cinnamon
Slowly simmer vinegar until reduced to +/- 3 cups, add aromatics and reduce to +/- 2 cups. This should appear a little syrupy. Filter and cool. Filtering must be done hot, do not inhale.
2 cups red wine, I prefer Merlot for this. Any red wine that is not really tannic would work, whatever wine you choose, the flavor will be enhanced. An Aussie GSM would be great.
Reduce by slowly simmering to 1/2 cup, should be syrupy.
Combine the vinegar reduction with the wine reduction. You should have 2-1/2 cups more or less. Add:
1/4 cup Worcestershire or fish sauce
1/2 cup liquid sweetener (honey, malt syrup, agave syrup, medium syrup, corn syrup)
1 tablespoon dry mustard
Adjust sweetness for taste. I prefer a lighter sweetness and will often go with light honey. Heat the vinegar, wine and sweeteners to combine and reduce. You should end up with 3 cups of sauce. This is my base that I add other flavorings to.
Things I add...ketchup, molasses, prepared mustard, bourbon
I would add honey, or if it is easier, golden syrup. Both work. I use honey.
As for flavorings, I would add some ketchup and molasses to make the comparison work. 1/8 cup of each. Or, just use 1/4 cup ketchup as that will give you a nice red sauce. I would add, this is more of a mother sauce, which I often just add stuff to make it work for how I am feeling. It is a sweet and sour base from which I can work. I would say that with the ketchup and/or molasses, it will work best with pork and with beef.
Recipe Review:
Ingredients: Quite an interesting list of ingredients with a very specific method involved. The addition of red wine and whole spices is quite unique and intriguing. However, ketchup does tend to have similar spices, so it should not be _that_ different adding them this way. Using a decent bottle of red does raise the cost of making the sauce, as does a plentiful amount of vinegar. The reliance on a reduction of wine and vinegar to provide most of the sweetness is an interesting deviation from most sauces and the honey another unique combination.
Ease of preparation: Rather lengthy and hands on, requiring a bit more attention than most set-and-forget sauces. However, these stages can be broken up if you don't have the time or patience to do it all in one go. The reduction and filtering takes some time, but once that is done, it is very straight forward.
Modifications and variations tested: The sauce was tested on grilled beef, pulled pork, smoked chicken, ribs and beef brisket.
Taste/Texture: Without garlic, onion or chilli, one might assume this sauce would be lacking in flavour or those basic background notes often encountered in barbecue sauces. I must say however, that chilli would not really suit this sauce too well, and that the onion and garlic is not needed.
I was worried at the beginning that the red wine would completely dominate, and that it would taste like a red wine sauce, not a barbecue sauce. I am very pleased to say however, that by reducing the sauce, you are not left with a harsh red wine flavour, and as it is not reduced to a complete glaze, you are not confronted with a bitter result.
The vinegar reduction provides sweetness and a very nice sourness, perfectly balanced by the sweetness of the red wine and honey. Mentioning the honey, one would assume that it may provide an overly floral or dominant flavour, but it does not, and in fact, works perfectly with the other ingredients.
The texture is completely smooth, with the consistency quite thin, between a vinegar based sauce and corn syrup.
Recommendations: Due to the complexity of this sauce, it would be rather sensitive to certain changes, so I would leave it as is, only perhaps adding a touch more ketchup if you would prefer it thicker.
Ratings:
Appearance: 7/10 It is purple will stain everything in sight, whether that be meat or your white t-shirt.
Consistency: 6.5/10 An interesting consistency - very fluid when warm, a bit thicker when cool (though I would never use this if it wasn't warm/hot), more conducive for mixing with pulled meats or basting/brushing. Dipping is a possibility as the sauce is very potent, but it does not cling overly well.
Taste: 8/10 VERY complex. More tangy than sweet, perfect amount of salt and a very intriguing background note from the wine + vinegar reduction. No heat as such, but you do not notice this due to the spices and other additions (pungency of vinegar and wooster sauce).
Versatility: 7/10 This is a tough one, I found it was magnificent with beef (red wine + beef = marriage made in heaven), but not so good with chicken. Also, the spice rub used on the meat is a major issue. Due to the red wine, some ingredients in the spice rubs used on the meat may clash. I did not have the time to try numerous ingredients to pinpoint this so can only provide a few I feel may clash. Cumin and overly floral chillies would be my best guess.
Overall Rating: 7.5/10 When used on a "suitable" barbecued piece of meat, with an agreeable rub, this sauce is OUTSTANDING. The dilemma is getting that combination spot on. I would highly recommend this sauce to others, especially those who never stray from their usual ketchup + brown sugar + molasses based sauces. It is a very unique, interesting, fully flavoured sauce that works brilliantly with brisket. Just please don't be tempted to spice it up with chilli or hot sauce.
Photos of sauce construction:
Red Wine
Red Wine Reducing
Aromatics
Apple Cider Vinegar Reducing
Red Wine Reduced
Apple Cider Vinegar with Aromatics Added
Filtered Red Wine + Apple Cider Vinegar + Aromatics Mixture
Additions (Wooster Sauce, Honey, Dried Mustard)
Final Reduction
Final Flavouring Additions (Ketchup + Molasses)
Finished Sauce
Finished Sauce after sitting in the fridge for 2 days)
Next up, big brother smokes sauce!
#6 landarcs Sauce (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1524996&postcount=26)
A Base Recipe:
4 cups vinegar, I use cider or rice vinegar
1/2 piece of nutmeg coarsely crushed
8 to 10 peppercorns, lightly cracked
5 whole cloves, lightly cracked
2 bay leaves cracked in quarters
1/8 stick cinnamon
Slowly simmer vinegar until reduced to +/- 3 cups, add aromatics and reduce to +/- 2 cups. This should appear a little syrupy. Filter and cool. Filtering must be done hot, do not inhale.
2 cups red wine, I prefer Merlot for this. Any red wine that is not really tannic would work, whatever wine you choose, the flavor will be enhanced. An Aussie GSM would be great.
Reduce by slowly simmering to 1/2 cup, should be syrupy.
Combine the vinegar reduction with the wine reduction. You should have 2-1/2 cups more or less. Add:
1/4 cup Worcestershire or fish sauce
1/2 cup liquid sweetener (honey, malt syrup, agave syrup, medium syrup, corn syrup)
1 tablespoon dry mustard
Adjust sweetness for taste. I prefer a lighter sweetness and will often go with light honey. Heat the vinegar, wine and sweeteners to combine and reduce. You should end up with 3 cups of sauce. This is my base that I add other flavorings to.
Things I add...ketchup, molasses, prepared mustard, bourbon
I would add honey, or if it is easier, golden syrup. Both work. I use honey.
As for flavorings, I would add some ketchup and molasses to make the comparison work. 1/8 cup of each. Or, just use 1/4 cup ketchup as that will give you a nice red sauce. I would add, this is more of a mother sauce, which I often just add stuff to make it work for how I am feeling. It is a sweet and sour base from which I can work. I would say that with the ketchup and/or molasses, it will work best with pork and with beef.
Recipe Review:
Ingredients: Quite an interesting list of ingredients with a very specific method involved. The addition of red wine and whole spices is quite unique and intriguing. However, ketchup does tend to have similar spices, so it should not be _that_ different adding them this way. Using a decent bottle of red does raise the cost of making the sauce, as does a plentiful amount of vinegar. The reliance on a reduction of wine and vinegar to provide most of the sweetness is an interesting deviation from most sauces and the honey another unique combination.
Ease of preparation: Rather lengthy and hands on, requiring a bit more attention than most set-and-forget sauces. However, these stages can be broken up if you don't have the time or patience to do it all in one go. The reduction and filtering takes some time, but once that is done, it is very straight forward.
Modifications and variations tested: The sauce was tested on grilled beef, pulled pork, smoked chicken, ribs and beef brisket.
Taste/Texture: Without garlic, onion or chilli, one might assume this sauce would be lacking in flavour or those basic background notes often encountered in barbecue sauces. I must say however, that chilli would not really suit this sauce too well, and that the onion and garlic is not needed.
I was worried at the beginning that the red wine would completely dominate, and that it would taste like a red wine sauce, not a barbecue sauce. I am very pleased to say however, that by reducing the sauce, you are not left with a harsh red wine flavour, and as it is not reduced to a complete glaze, you are not confronted with a bitter result.
The vinegar reduction provides sweetness and a very nice sourness, perfectly balanced by the sweetness of the red wine and honey. Mentioning the honey, one would assume that it may provide an overly floral or dominant flavour, but it does not, and in fact, works perfectly with the other ingredients.
The texture is completely smooth, with the consistency quite thin, between a vinegar based sauce and corn syrup.
Recommendations: Due to the complexity of this sauce, it would be rather sensitive to certain changes, so I would leave it as is, only perhaps adding a touch more ketchup if you would prefer it thicker.
Ratings:
Appearance: 7/10 It is purple
will stain everything in sight, whether that be meat or your white t-shirt.Consistency: 6.5/10 An interesting consistency - very fluid when warm, a bit thicker when cool (though I would never use this if it wasn't warm/hot), more conducive for mixing with pulled meats or basting/brushing. Dipping is a possibility as the sauce is very potent, but it does not cling overly well.
Taste: 8/10 VERY complex. More tangy than sweet, perfect amount of salt and a very intriguing background note from the wine + vinegar reduction. No heat as such, but you do not notice this due to the spices and other additions (pungency of vinegar and wooster sauce).
Versatility: 7/10 This is a tough one, I found it was magnificent with beef (red wine + beef = marriage made in heaven), but not so good with chicken. Also, the spice rub used on the meat is a major issue. Due to the red wine, some ingredients in the spice rubs used on the meat may clash. I did not have the time to try numerous ingredients to pinpoint this so can only provide a few I feel may clash. Cumin and overly floral chillies would be my best guess.
Overall Rating: 7.5/10 When used on a "suitable" barbecued piece of meat, with an agreeable rub, this sauce is OUTSTANDING. The dilemma is getting that combination spot on. I would highly recommend this sauce to others, especially those who never stray from their usual ketchup + brown sugar + molasses based sauces. It is a very unique, interesting, fully flavoured sauce that works brilliantly with brisket. Just please don't be tempted to spice it up with chilli or hot sauce.
Photos of sauce construction:
Red Wine
Red Wine Reducing
Aromatics
Apple Cider Vinegar Reducing
Red Wine Reduced
Apple Cider Vinegar with Aromatics Added
Filtered Red Wine + Apple Cider Vinegar + Aromatics Mixture
Additions (Wooster Sauce, Honey, Dried Mustard)
Final Reduction
Final Flavouring Additions (Ketchup + Molasses)
Finished Sauce
Finished Sauce after sitting in the fridge for 2 days)
Next up, big brother smokes sauce!
landarc
somebody shut me the fark up.
Well, thanks for the review and the effort Infernoo, a 7.5 is great, I am seeing you are a tough critic so I am thinking 7.5 is excellent. I do use it mostly with a Santa Maria type rub on beef. It works well for pork, especially since I prefer a thinner sauce for pulled pork blending. Thanks for giving it a spin, and yes, it is a pain to make. But, I happen to like reductions of red wine and vinegar.
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker
I must admit, very few sauces capture my attention. This one is VERY different. I like
that! I may give it a try in a few months. It sure looks interesting. And, to the time
consuming, anything worth making is worth making right.
Landarc, where could someone find a Santa Maria type of rub (a good one) online? I
can see where mine, mostly chili pepper based, would conflict dramatically. Perhaps
something with a lot of black pepper and very little else?...
Do you use an injection in your beef?
that! I may give it a try in a few months. It sure looks interesting. And, to the time
consuming, anything worth making is worth making right.
Landarc, where could someone find a Santa Maria type of rub (a good one) online? I
can see where mine, mostly chili pepper based, would conflict dramatically. Perhaps
something with a lot of black pepper and very little else?...
Do you use an injection in your beef?
landarc
somebody shut me the fark up.
Bob's Rub...basic style
3 parts medium grind black pepper
2 parts kosher salt, I prefer Redmond Real Kosher Salt
1/2 part chile powder
1/2 part each granulated onion and granulated garlic
1/4 part dried citrus peel
less basic...
sub 1/2 part guajilo powder for chile powder
add 1/8 part celery seed smashed
(edit) I am currently using Vietnamese Phu Quoc black pepper which is the most aromatic pepper I have ever experienced, it needs less pepper overall. The rub above was developed with Telicherry Black Pepper which is also pretty strong. Most folks will want equal parts of black pepper and salt, but, I use less salt typically.
Or you could just buy some Santa Maria Rub from The Rub Company, good stuff that.
By the way, the origin of this sauce was my attempts are trying to turn Buerre Rouge into a BBQ sauce. It originally was made fresh and sauteed shallots and garlic were included, along with 1/4 cup butter mounted into the sauce at the end. This is a classic steak and veal chop sauce. But, the shallots and garlic are lumpy and the butter hardens which makes it less functional as a BBQ sauce. BUT, if you add sauteed shallots and garlic into a sauce pan and then add this sauce, mount with the butter, you will have a killer steak, chop and roast sauce. Leave the butter out, and you an dress a cutting board before slicing a roast or pulling a chuck for extra flavor.
3 parts medium grind black pepper
2 parts kosher salt, I prefer Redmond Real Kosher Salt
1/2 part chile powder
1/2 part each granulated onion and granulated garlic
1/4 part dried citrus peel
less basic...
sub 1/2 part guajilo powder for chile powder
add 1/8 part celery seed smashed
(edit) I am currently using Vietnamese Phu Quoc black pepper which is the most aromatic pepper I have ever experienced, it needs less pepper overall. The rub above was developed with Telicherry Black Pepper which is also pretty strong. Most folks will want equal parts of black pepper and salt, but, I use less salt typically.
Or you could just buy some Santa Maria Rub from The Rub Company, good stuff that.
By the way, the origin of this sauce was my attempts are trying to turn Buerre Rouge into a BBQ sauce. It originally was made fresh and sauteed shallots and garlic were included, along with 1/4 cup butter mounted into the sauce at the end. This is a classic steak and veal chop sauce. But, the shallots and garlic are lumpy and the butter hardens which makes it less functional as a BBQ sauce. BUT, if you add sauteed shallots and garlic into a sauce pan and then add this sauce, mount with the butter, you will have a killer steak, chop and roast sauce. Leave the butter out, and you an dress a cutting board before slicing a roast or pulling a chuck for extra flavor.
Smoothsmoke
Babbling Farker
Infernnoooo,
Which if any of the sauces most resembled Head Country? :icon_shy
Which if any of the sauces most resembled Head Country? :icon_shy
landarc
somebody shut me the fark up.
Oops, missed that part of the question, I do not currently inject my brisket or any beef cuts. I do own 2 lbs or so of Butchers and a brand new injector which I need to try. Some of that competition brisket I have had is so tasty. The issue has been that I have not had time to cook a longer cook of late, too much project work (which I will not complain about). But, I will be injecting, at least as a test.
I
infernooo
Guest
None so far! Bills would be the closest, but still not too similar.
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker
For what it's worth, I've tried a few other injections. Most are not bad.
I found that for my taste, Butchers mixed with water (as per directions)
allowed to set-up overnight is wonderful. Careful, it has some salt in it.
I added recently a fairly salty rub and found the beef to be too salty for
my palate, but then I'm fairly sensitive to salt. I think you'll like it (Butchers I mean).
1FUNVET
Babbling Farker
When you are finished with all the sauces will you compile a list of them with recipes and ratings in a format that will be ez to print ?
inv3ctiv3
is one Smokin' Farker
I just made a great sauce, 64oz of ketchup, some mustard, oregano, apple sauce, cherry preserves, minced garlic, some simply marvelous sweet and spicy rub, cayenne pepper, red pepper flakes, etc. Can't wait to use it!
Erin
Knows what a fatty is.
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Yes Infernoo,
This is such a wonderful thread. A keeper/classic. One to be referenced in the future. I have been cutting and pasting your work into a word document. When I get better at what I am just beginning to learn I want to come back to this project and study the recipes. This goes along with some new books I bought from Amazon. I am also taking a BBQ class this month. You are helping me. This is such a wonderful thing for a newbie like me to stumble upon. Thank you Infernoo!!!! :clap2:
