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Conclusion from these Rib Scores

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I was able to cut 6 nice ribs from the center of one rack last weekend, and turned them in for judging. (No pictures - we were short handed). The taste from the rack was 'OK', and not a change from what we typically do, they looked very nice, and in my opinion were cooked just about perfect.

Here are the scores. What can I conclude?

JUDGE 1 JUDGE 2 JUDGE 3 JUDGE 4 JUDGE 5 JUDGE 6
9 8 8 - 9 9 9 - 7 8 8 - 8 5 8 - 8 5 6 - 8 7 8
 
DivaHerself said:
With taste being the heaviest weighted score, having more than one 5 will kill you dead. Is there an "elbow" in your flavor profile -- is there one element that sticks out, out of balance with the others?
Click to expand...

Not knowingly. I don't perceive them to have any overtly strong flavor component.

In fact, if you asked what would need to be changed on taste, I'd probably say I need to add an "elbow" - that our tast may lack some pop in some form (probably sweetness).

I could accept two 5s is all the rest of the scores were marginal. Maybe they are.

I could also accept all marginal scores if indeed the lack of zing is an issue. But having a 8,9,8 to go with a pair of 5s stumps me a little. And since one of those 5s came from a judge also delivering a 6 on texture, when the ribs seemed spot on, makes me scratch my head more.

Here is the frustration, and probably my own answer: We have always cooked our ribs the same way, from the beginning, with no intentional changes to the method. Our first 3 contests, I believe we got three consecutive top 5s. It clearly is no longer working now, and has not been for quite some time. It is time to change.
 
3 judges that are cookers and understanding cooking, 2 judges that don't?

It would be nice if KCBS was actually watching for judges like this and recording scores judges turn in that seem outside of the norm for a table and question the judges if trends appear.
 
That's the sore spot. When you realize that they're not going over like they were, it's time to go back to the drawing board. You can take cold comfort in the fact that as soon as you get the ribs "fixed", one of your other meats will go south on you.
crylaugh.gif


I also think that we should just crown Lisa as the Permanent Rib Queen and not let her play anymore.
shiner.gif
 
Wow, that's a big variance. BIG. I dont quite know what to make of it either. You're
right, perhaps need an elbow, but that's a double edged sword. Mind you, this comes
from someone who enjoys judging, cooks, and competes with a mildy spicy and mildly sweet flavor base. Even then, mine can be too spicy or too sweet for some. 9 to 5,
damn.

A while back, having judged and competed in different comps, I really became a fan
of MIM/MBN's scoring. I'm not a fan of any that use a 1-10 (or 1-9) scoring system
because of numeric variance. Meaning, I'm not a fan because a few 5's (not that
it's ever happened) in with a series of 8's will kill you. MBN doesn't have that. 7
if it's a spitter, 8 is plain non good, 9 is good, and 10 is great. All 9's doesnt get
you demolished. An 8 in the mix doesnt kill terribly, but isn't good.

One 10 in the mix overcomes an 8 scored. However, in the large variation scoring
systems it takes a lot of 9's and 10's to overcome a 5 or 6...

Oh well, no need to suggest replacing a scoring system, right?
 
nthole said:
3 judges that are cookers and understanding cooking, 2 judges that don't?

It would be nice if KCBS was actually watching for judges like this and recording scores judges turn in that seem outside of the norm for a table and question the judges if trends appear.
Click to expand...


I think KCBS should REQUIRE a comment card from the judge for any score lower than a 6. Having them have to explain themselves might just make them think a bit more about if the taste really is waaay below average and why.

We had a great P-Pork this weekend that finished 7th, but one judge in the group gave it a 4 on taste and a 5 on tenderness. :crazy: Obviously the other judges at the table did not think the same way:

745-988-798-988-799-979
 
I have a problem with requiring or even firmly requesting comment cards of judges! No offense but people are lazy...if a judge knows they'll have to do a comment score if they give a 5 or lower, they won't give a 5 or lower. Then we might as well be back in the 9-8-7 scoring days with multitudenous "perfect" scores.

With that said, I feel your pain. Last weekend, I scored 2nd in peoples choice pork, but 30th out of 36 in pork at the contest. I thought my contest pork was better than the judges did. I'm not changing a thing I do in Lula this weekend either.
 
I am glad that you think that way Candy. I agree with it. While it is painful as a cook to think that someone judged your meat less than average... It is all subjective folks. But to narrow the scoring down to how it used to be is not the answer either.

I think my brisket was on the same table as your pork Candy... :roll: Didn't you win Butt-to-Butt a couple of years ago? Isn't that like the best pork cooks cooking? Yeah, there were some strange scores. :confused:
On a good note. It was great seeing you last weekend.

Candy Sue said:
I have a problem with requiring or even firmly requesting comment cards of judges! No offense but people are lazy...if a judge knows they'll have to do a comment score if they give a 5 or lower, they won't give a 5 or lower. Then we might as well be back in the 9-8-7 scoring days with multitudenous "perfect" scores.

With that said, I feel your pain. Last weekend, I scored 2nd in peoples choice pork, but 30th out of 36 in pork at the contest. I thought my contest pork was better than the judges did. I'm not changing a thing I do in Lula this weekend either.
Click to expand...
 
As a rule of thumb any time there is a swing of more than 2 points between the table in any score catagory the table captain should show it to the rep and the rep should ask why such a difference. If the judge has a legitimate reason for scoring out of the majority fine. It is his/her opinion and shall be encouraged. If on the other hand he/she says something that has no relevance they should be taken aside and have an on the spot judging class.
I'm sure there is a rep advisory handling this but do not know exactly what is is.
Any reps want to weigh in on this? Merl, Linda????
Ed

I think Candy Sue is 100% correct if you mandate a comment card for any given number you will not see that number on a score sheet again.
 
> I think Candy Sue is 100% correct if you mandate a comment card for
> any given number you will not see that number on a score sheet again.

Agreed. Reps, variance at a table, any comments?

Looking at what I'd typed earlier, and with Candy's comments, MBN has that
damned finals 2nd round thing that is frankly a pain in the butt. The first round
is about getting off of the table into finals. Changing variance would either have
the top 5 or 6 (in KCBS or others) use tiebreaker or have to go to a 2nd judging;
either way sucks... I guess it's part of it; the bad with the good. Would like
to see how you can get 9's, 8's, and 7's, then 5's... all in the same category.

Just pondering: Should every judge, regardless of score, jot down what they
thought? If it's the norm... I dont know... Scottie, dare I type it, is at the crux
of it; it's subjective, and on any given day....
 
Please excuse my ignorance but what is an "elbow"?

Thanks,

Smitty
Loot N' Booty BBQ
 
ModelMaker said:
As a rule of thumb any time there is a swing of more than 2 points between the table in any score catagory the table captain should show it to the rep and the rep should ask why such a difference. If the judge has a legitimate reason for scoring out of the majority fine. It is his/her opinion and shall be encouraged. If on the other hand he/she says something that has no relevance they should be taken aside and have an on the spot judging class.
QUOTE]

I heard of a judge just recently at a contest gave a 4 on pork. He was questioned by the rep and the reason given was because he/she said that it didn't look like there was enough there for 6 people.

Play with that one for a while....with all other entries it is quite clear, is there six identifiable pieces or not?

With Pulled Pork, what if everyone takes a healthy portion and there is nothing left for the last judge?

Does the judge give the taste-tenderness a 1 as they would for a rib/chicken/brisket if the first five judges were "greedy?"

Can you give a 4 (or 1 for that matter) on appearance because you THINK there might not be enough to go around?

:confused:
Click to expand...
 
nthole said:
3 judges that are cookers and understanding cooking, 2 judges that don't?

It would be nice if KCBS was actually watching for judges like this and recording scores judges turn in that seem outside of the norm for a table and question the judges if trends appear.
Click to expand...

It would be great if they would put a spot on the judgin card if the judge also has a current cooking team. Just for the record..:roll:
 
Desertdog said:
I think KCBS should REQUIRE a comment card from the judge for any score lower than a 6. Having them have to explain themselves might just make them think a bit more about if the taste really is waaay below average and why.

We had a great P-Pork this weekend that finished 7th, but one judge in the group gave it a 4 on taste and a 5 on tenderness. :crazy: Obviously the other judges at the table did not think the same way:

745-988-798-988-799-979
Click to expand...
Whoa! As a rep (and usually running the computer) I would have caught that variance and ask that judge why. And as far as requiring a comment card..what do you do with one that comments about a pork rib: "Taste too much like pork!"? :shock: :shock:
 
If you found out what would turn the fives into eights or nines, wouldn't that bring your eights and nines down to fives?

I'm going to find out first hand about judging this month, I'm taking a class. :shock:
 
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