Burnt Sugar form Rubs

Redheart

is one Smokin' Farker
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I have heard many times and seen it posted many times, that the sugar in the rub burned. Well lets consider a few facts about sugar.

Sugar doesn't caramelize till 320*. Doesn't burn till 350*.

Syrup sugars like honey and maple syrup will tolerate a little more heat because they need to boil off moisture. But not much.

Maple sap starts boiling only about 7 degrees higher than water. It also is not considered syrup till it is boiled down to 67% sugar content. So bottled syrup does not have a very large window before all the moisture is driven off and the sugar content is susceptible to burning.

At temperatures as low as 100* honey starts to caramelize converting the sugars something very close to cane sugar. Again it shouldn't really burn till about 365* but it will effect the honey flavour.

So hear are my thoughts.

If you are burning your rub during a low and slow you are:

A) Burning something other than the sugar in your rub.
B) Burning at a temp beyond low.
C) Using way too much smoke creating 'stale' smoke allowing the rub to absorb too much of the acrid nature of the smoke.
D)Using smoke for too long during the cook and discolouring the meat and drying the bark out till it has the quality of charred meat.

If you want a sweetened rub you must go low and slow otherwise you will get a bitter burnt taste. Burnt sugar has a very definite taste and smell. I know many a old hand at this may not agree with the facts above and insist sugar burns at about 265* but it is really not the case.

If you must have sweet and high heat try brining, since the internal temperature of the meat should never come close to these temperatures not even 265*. Try making a sweet sauce to glaze the meat and add a couple of layers of the sauce about before pulling the meat. Or try a pan of water in with your smoke. This will keep hotter temperature smokes cooler though the absorption of heat due to the heat sump nature of the pan of water and then again through the cooling effects of evaporation.

So if you are burning the rub on your meats, don't blame the rub. Look at your technique and adjust where needed.

I am taping pillows to my butt ' cause I know the a$$beating I am gone take for this post.
 
Rest assured no one here wants to touch your butt....

As for the post. Nice knowledge.
 
Thanks for the Info Red... It sounds Like good advice to me,,, But what the heck do I know,LMBO. I'm still a newbie...
 
My homemade rub with sugar produces a nice bark that everyone likes. Its never been called 'burnt'. And yes, I do cook low and slow.
 
only once had a problem with my homemade, soon to try to take commercial, rub......that was because i was drinking way too much and trying to talk to all the skirts in the park......forgot i had ribs on the smoker
 
Redheart...brother.... you are waaay over thining this. RELAX and enjoy good BBQ. Facts are only a starting point but if you think you can put all these facts together and make a cook work....won't happen. A brisket of the same brand and size may take 8 hours or 15 hours. It is done when it is done, period! All of your questions are ligitimate but it all boils down to trial and error based on what you are cooking on. Try your theories and techniques and keep us posted. JUST COOK SOMETHING and take notes. Not too many notes though!
 
Thanks for the Mad Scientist approach to the problem. But I have to ask ....l Kool -Aid? :eek: How did you ever come up with that?
It wasn't hard to come up with at all. It was there in the pantry when I was checking for more stuff to test.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: Actually, before that I had tried a rib rub with cherry Kool-Aid powder in it, so when i saw the packet I figured I better go ahead and put it in the test too. I heard about using the Kool-Aid while chatting with a guy who was trying to duplicate a Cherry Rub he really liked. The Kool-Aid does not duplicate the same cherry flavor as the rub he was trying to duplicate, but a cherry flavor that is not at all offensive is right there front and center!:biggrin:
 
Hmmm... for 4-5 years, the old dogs on another forum had me convinced that 275* was magic number for burning sugar. I have now been removed of my blinders and will take a more objective assessment.

Now I know where the mad scientist went too. Thanks for the posts everyone!
 
I've spoken on this before. Paprika has a lower burning point than sugar, and actually contains quite a bit of natural sugar. Certain types of paprika will also get bitter if it's cooked too high too long.
 
Hey Prudog, good to see another familiar face here. There's a few faces here from other forums.:wink:

I also agree about the Paprika being a likely factor for most people. A lot of people use a fair amount of paprika in their rubs, and depending on what kind you use it may wind up burnt tasting.
 
OK, good link, but who here cooks for 48 hours? If they do, then i guess the sugar may turn a light yellowish color and take on an off flavor. I'm not sure that qualifies as burnt though. My original experiment cooked just plain granulated cane sugar on a tray in an oven overnight to see if it changed. It did not have a flavor or color change. Just thought I would point that out is all. Not debunking the link, just trying to put it in proper context.
 
Over a long period of time, at temperature of around 100 C, sugar will discolor and take on bad flavors.

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200706/000020070607A0208743.php

Thanks for the link, and it does make sense. Heat can be absorbed and incrementally increased within an object without adding higher temperatures. This is why you can fry an egg on asphalt when it is 100* F. More importantly to us here on this forum it explains why resting meat will raise the temperature 5* or better.

But I agree with Bigabyte, who smokes at 100*C (212*F) for 48 hours. Also the article said the sugar discoloured it mentioned nothing about taking on bad flavours.

I do think it is remarkable that 2 different brands of sugar demonstrated a 15*C (59*F) difference in melting points. That is quite a bit and does offer the possibility that the brand of sugar could be the greater culprit.

So let the debate continue! It is good to know that the search for the perfect Q goes on.
 
It wasn't hard to come up with at all. It was there in the pantry when I was checking for more stuff to test.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: Actually, before that I had tried a rib rub with cherry Kool-Aid powder in it, so when i saw the packet I figured I better go ahead and put it in the test too. I heard about using the Kool-Aid while chatting with a guy who was trying to duplicate a Cherry Rub he really liked. The Kool-Aid does not duplicate the same cherry flavor as the rub he was trying to duplicate, but a cherry flavor that is not at all offensive is right there front and center!:biggrin:

Well that makes sense. So when do you test Gator-ade? It has the salts and the sugars! Betcha the texture would be pretty good but I couldn't even fathom the taste.

Thanks for all the research and hard work. If you decide to try the Gator-ade let me know the results.
 
I've spoken on this before. Paprika has a lower burning point than sugar, and actually contains quite a bit of natural sugar. Certain types of paprika will also get bitter if it's cooked too high too long.


Thanks for that info, I didn't realize that. Do you know what types of Paprika are recommended for low and slow? I imagine that Smoked Paprika would be one since it has already been exposed to some heat. But I am only guessing on that, based on my experience growing up when I was making a Chicken Cacciatore. I was sauteing the garlic and onions in olive oil and it smoked like crazy, turned an ugly black and had a very offensive smell. I realized that I had used Extra-Virgin Olive Oil and not plain Olive oil as I usually did. The final product was edible but everything had a dark burned look and and a charred taste. Won't do that again.
 
Take a look at the ingredients I tested for a guideline. The quality of each ingredient makes a big difference. for example, using Penzeys or Szeged Sweet Hungarian Paprika had far, far better results than standard Tones Paprika.
 
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