First Experience with KCBScore

Do the rumors also say if the judges who get asked the questions answer all of them. Do these judges in fact "out" their fellow judges? I've only judged a few times as I'm normally cooking, but if a cook team asked me where I was sitting, what my seat number was, who else was at the table I would know pretty quickly what they were trying to do and not answer.

Blind judging is blind judging.. But after the dust settles and we all get our score sheets, some people with bad scores could be more than inclined to ask their judge friends if it was them or not. It might be blind to judges, but it's not totally 100% blind to us cooks once we get our sheets, and can ask judges that happen to be there on Saturday. You are still judging blind at the time.

I would also have to say, none of my entries this weekend hit the high scoring table, and one of my entries hit one of the low scoring tables. It was very interesting to get to see my new score sheet.

Now, with the details that KCBScore gives I will never reveal what table I sat at! :gossip:

K n K had the scoop
If there are 12 tables like at Huntington Ca
You should say table 13 judge 7

I have judged several KCBS comps under the new scoring system and have been asked by several teams to reveal where I sat. My standard answer is that I have the duty to do my part to maintain the integrity of the scoring system and as such cannot and will not reveal where I or any other judge sat during the judging process. I respect what the teams do to cook for comps and I hope that the cooks have the same respect for the judging process. Also, it is difficult to remember exactly how I scored any sample unless the sample was a standout, good or bad.

Don

SaucyWench said:

Yesterday was the first competition I've judged since KCBScore was implemented, and after hearing some comments from cooks, I have a concern about the fact that table numbers are not changed.
Rumor has it that some competitors are asking judges after awards for their table numbers, and their seat number, and who else was at their table, and what their seat numbers were, in order to find out who scored their entry lower than they thought it should be. While I would hope this isn't common, to me, it totally goes against the blind judging that we expect from KCBS.
I have no problem with KCBS tracking my scoring, or cooks seeing how I and the other 5 judges at my table scored on average in that category on that day. However, I do have a problem with being "outed" if I got a bad piece of chicken or a fatty brisket chunk and scored it as I felt was appropriate. Just as I don't know if I'm sampling a friend's turn-in or if it came from someone I don't know, I don't want cooks to know which judges to love or hate that day!
I seriously feel like this needs to be addressed by KCBS. What do you think, Brethren & Sistren?

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Why does it matter if someone asked you why you scored an entry the way you did like your example of bad chicken or fatty brisket? Just tell them it was bad.

Coming from an MIM and MBN background, I'm right there with Rich. Tell them. As a judge, I'm accustomed to talking with teams. As a competitor, I'm accustomed to talking with the judge. I mean it's subjective for goodness sake. Everyone has an opinion.... For that matter, it's normal for an on-site judge to later come back and discuss with the teams (after it's all said and done with)...

I've done 2 contests with the new score sheets and have had bbq friends judging both events. After awards I asked both of them which table they were sitting at..really don't care which seat. My thought is this....if someone does remember my entry, good or bad, I'd like to have some insight. In one case, the judge was able to give me a general over view of his samples (everything looked and tasted almost the same...nothing stood out). In the other case, I had won the table and my entry stood out and was able to get some insight on what made it stand out. Both instances were very helpful. I will continue to ask judges I know which table they were sitting at. I will also respect the judges wishes if they don't want to divulge that info.

I haven't run into it yet but if asked I'll just tell them I was at the good table, just like when I'm asked how the meat was that day I tell them most were very good with a couple bad ones though.
All true.
Ed

We seem to want to think that this is cloak-and-dagger stuff. It's not. The only purpose for the blind is to level the playing field; that's all. Once judging is complete, the game is over. Why not talk? Why not explain. If you dont like someones Q, tell them for goodness sake. If you dont want to, then dont.

I would love to hear why judges didn't like my chicken (33rd) or brisket (28th) in Hudson Valley last weekend. They are almost always top 10, and often top 5 entries, and there were no problems with our cook that I could detect. I would love to see comment cards come back.

I do think that judges shouldn't out other judges. If a judge wants to reveal where THEY sat, that's their choice, but they don't have the right expose others.

I would have to look it up and see if it is actually in the rules but I can remember a few years ago a discussion about judges talking to the teams after judging that if they got detailed enough to specify a certain entry judged that they could be subject to banishment and loosing their CBJ status. When I am asked I try to be pretty non-committal about the entries, I usually respond like "All the rib entries were good, but some of the brisket was only average or worse."

CBQ said:

I would love to hear why judges didn't like my chicken (31st) or brisket (28th) in Hudson Valley last weekend. They are almost always top 10, and often top 5 entries, and there were no problems with our cook that I could detect. I would love to see comment cards come back.

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I had a similar experience this weekend. Would love to hear feedback as well, always got something to learn.

Good news though is that according to the minutes of last week's KCBS Board meeting, comment cards are coming back as soon as they can get them printed and to the reps. :clap2:

CBQ, I liked the comment cards as well. While it may sting to get some serious harsh criticism on the product of your efforts for the weekend. It is the only way you can improve if we can get some reasons for the numbers.

dhuffjr said:

CBQ, I liked the comment cards as well. While it may sting to get some serious harsh criticism on the product of your efforts for the weekend. It is the only way you can improve if we can get some reasons for the numbers.

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Getting 33 in chicken was already some harsh criticism. :becky:

Either BBQRACE is having a data issue, or they are trying to rub it in LOL:

Chicken
Event Name Rank Points Score
Troy Pig Out 1 175.4172 282
The Lexington Battle-Green BBQ Festival 2 170.8572 255
Monadnock Up In Smoke BBQ Fest 3 173.1428 242
The Harpoon Championships of New England 5 169.6800 181
Smokin @ the Ballpark BBQ Festival 8 169.7142 148
Sam's Club National BBQ Tour 9 157.7028 137
Green Lane Fire CO's 19 159.4284 105
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Roc City Rib Fest 31 160.5716 75
Pork in the Park Barbeque Festival 61 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Hudson Valley Ribfest 33 156.0000 75
Wakefield Rotary Campus CookOff & State BBQ 38 151.9772 71

We knew what was wrong with the chicken at Roc City, Pork in Park, and Green Lane. Hudson Valley and Wakefield we have no idea.

I don't think that it is wrong to ask.
I agree with Lake Dogs...once it's over why not?
As long as the judge only discusses their scoring and doesn't out other judges at the table.

dano said:

I don't think that it is wrong to ask.
I agree with Lake Dogs...once it's over why not?
As long as the judge only discusses their scoring and doesn't out other judges at the table.

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I disagree.

Cooks tend to be defensive when they don't like their scores, and the last thing we need in KCBS is more divisiveness between the judges and cooks. I am always happy to discuss the entries I judged in very general terms: i.e. "brisket was very good, ribs were below average, saw some drumsticks today, etc." but I would rebuke any cook that asked me for my table or judge numbers.

I firmly believe that there is nothing good that comes from breaking the blind in blind box judging. Even in MBN where there is face-to-face judging in the onsite portion, anonymous judging is maintained in the blind box.

If you want feedback from CBJs, organize a test cook with another team or two and invite some judges for a live judging critique. Comment cards are the way to handle critique at a contest, and hopefully they will be coming back soon.