Q: Judging and bite-through skin

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Is there a new rule on bite-through skin in judging this year?

On Saturday, we got a comment on our chicken ("rubbery skin" on a 6 for tenderness.) On the one hand, I'd love to encourage comment cards and it is certainly possible one of the thighs we put in didn't have perfect skin (the others did, and the judges agreed.) The problem is, another team told us that they aren't supposed to rate bite-through skin this year.

Is it worth contacting KCBS or did I get bad info? It doesn't matter specifically (we weren't DAL and we're nowhere near the awards) but if it is being judged incorrectly, they should notify the judge. And if not, I should SFTU and get back to cooking :)
 
Bite through skin is not really talked about one way or the other specifically. The only comment made about skin is if it is presented with skin on you should taste it. That being said when judging for tenderness if you have a rubbery or tough to chew piece of skin in the bite it is going to effect the tenderness score. keith
 
That was pretty much my thought when I got the card - it was a 6, lower than we've been getting but not worth freaking out over (and I was glad to know why.) The other guys were pretty vehement that it was badly judged and needed to be brought to KCBS, so I wanted to get another opinion before I go running around yelling :)

Thanks!
 
If I presented something that isn't tender I would expect my tenderness scores to be low. It doesn't say "ignore skin texture" in the rules. Now if you pulled the skin off and somebody marked you down for not having skin that is wrong. You are to judge what is presented not what you think should be in the box. If your going to put skin on chicken in the box I would make sure the skin is tender.
 
I took the CBJ class held this year in Lake Havasu, AZ and the way this issue was presented is that the chicken should be bite through. Someone asked what that meant about the skin, (there were a number of experienced cooks in the class), and the answer was that the chicken should be bite through. Big help, huh.

Here is what I think was being implied: If there is skin attached to the chicken and you can't bite through it, the chicken wasn't "bite through" and the tenderness score should reflect this accordingly.
 
I've only judged in the West, and can say that although many judges appreciate good quality skin (either soft bite-thru, or crispy & bite-thru), they put most of their emphasis with respect to scoring... on meat texture and moistness. After the first bite, most pieces are generally separated to some degree, and the second bite (if there is one) may or may not include skin.

All that said ... I've been in the situation several times where I got a good bite on a particular entry and notice another judge with a bad bite.. The blinders go on for me, and I judge my piece as-is.
 
Thanks all!

That all sounds like what I was thinking initially - we had a piece in there with an imperfect skin and the judge was nice enough to throw a card in and let us know what was wrong. (I would have been more concerned if it potentially dropped us out of the calls, but we pulled 62 of 69 so.. And his other 2 scores were pretty good.)

The response from the other team was .. excited. (But they were trying to help, and we can use all the help we can get!)
 
I never judge down if an entry does not have bite through skin.

"Remember, as a KCBS Judge, you are not judging by what you like but to the standards defined by KCBS."

Where in the KCBS standards does it state that the skin on a chicken entry must be bite through?
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EatonHoggBBQ said:
I never judge down if an entry does not have bite through skin.

"Remember, as a KCBS Judge, you are not judging by what you like but to the standards defined by KCBS."

Where in the KCBS standards does it state that the skin on a chicken entry must be bite through?
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are there any other items that you dont judge when it is put in the box?

Of course you should judge the skin. If it is in the box it gets judged.
 
EatonHoggBBQ said:
I never judge down if an entry does not have bite through skin.

"Remember, as a KCBS Judge, you are not judging by what you like but to the standards defined by KCBS."

Where in the KCBS standards does it state that the skin on a chicken entry must be bite through?
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John, I judge the same way you do and agree with you. I DO NOT judge down if chicken is not Bite through. BUT I have had my arse chewd from most on here about it. They think skin should be judged. I guess I'm a cooks judge and will continue to judge the way I have for years.

Oh Dawgphan by the way I don't judge greenery and most boxes have it. Some teams do a lot better job making it look good to. I judge meat. JMO, blast away, I've already heard it.
 
rweller said:
John, I judge the same way you do and agree with you. I DO NOT judge down if chicken is not Bite through. BUT I have had my arse chewd from most on here about it. They think skin should be judged. I guess I'm a cooks judge and will continue to judge the way I have for years.

Oh Dawgphan by the way I don't judge greenery and most boxes have it. Some teams do a lot better job making it look good to. I judge meat. JMO, blast away, I've already heard it.
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you wonder why most cooks dont think too highly of judges...attitudes of I am going to do it my way, rules be damned, is a good start.

You arent a cook's judge...you are a you judge. cooks want everything in the box judged by each judge. Not judges picking and choosing what they want to judge.
 
EatonHoggBBQ said:
Did I say I don't judge the skin?????
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if you get 2 pieces of chicken, one has perfect moist tender chicken under some leathery skin, you would give it a 9. Same as the piece of chicken with moist perfectly tender chicken with perfect moist and tender skin.

In that case, you just f'd that second cook with the better chicken. The reward for cooking a perfect piece of chicken was no different than the reward for cooking a poorly cooked piece of chicken.
 
Show me where it says bite through skin..... it says "taste the skin".

[FONT=&quot]Chicken may be presented with or without the skin. It may also be presented with a combination of dark and white meat or all of one or the other. Properly smoked chicken will be moist and have a nice texture and any juice present should be clear. Smoked chicken has a tendency to produce a red coloring around the bone areas, especially in the thigh and leg meat. To some it gives the impression that it was undercooked. Always check the juices. If they are clear, chicken is properly cooked. There may be a pink appearance to the breast meat if it has[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]been cooked for some time; however, some cooks prepare their chicken in such a way that the breast meat will remain white. Because of this do not judge chicken on its color. If presented with skin on you should at least taste the skin.

Sounds like you want judges to compare entries.
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DawgPhan said:
you wonder why most cooks dont think too highly of judges...attitudes of I am going to do it my way, rules be damned, is a good start.

You arent a cook's judge...you are a you judge. cooks want everything in the box judged by each judge. Not judges picking and choosing what they want to judge.
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Gotta agree with you on this one. If it goes in the box, it should be subject to judging. I'm a little surprised by Mr Weller's comments here.

As far as judges doing things "their own way," the only thing I see coming from that is inconsistent judging from table to table and event to event. That's the one thing that drives cooks crazy and I'm sure it's not what the sanctioning body is after. The attitude doesn't help either.
 
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