New KCBS scoresheet

Well, this was my 5th ever comp and I've certainly not perfected ribs (or any other category). I changed my rib cook after Kearney and have gone 11/32, 7/34, and 16/32 with a table win since then. I'm just more concerned with the categories that have been inconsistent and ranking 4th or 5th at the table.

Mike dont get me wrong, you are doing great! I just ment that although the table stats pointed towards it being a bad table. Other stats said you were judged fairly or at least consistant with your other cooks.

Also did you check your judge 6 scores in ribs? Although it was the score that was thrown out I dont know what scores add up to a 29.1544
 
This is complete hearsay, and what likely amounts to normal hobnobbing between judges across the tables to pass the time between categories, but it was told to me this past weekend that all the judges were talking about the new system during the contest. That KCBS is tracking their scores across contests. Some judges have already received letters because their judging is way off from the norm and some have been banned. It stuck me as odd and inaccurate, but was curious if anyone could confirm or deny that this was the case?

My cynical side says:
frozenover_sm.jpg

But if the judges' rumor mill is spinning in that direction, well and good. Just giving thought that it *might* happen might give some judges pause. And for the majority that are handing down thoughtful, well-considered scores, well, what would they have to worry about?
 
This is complete hearsay, and what likely amounts to normal hobnobbing between judges across the tables to pass the time between categories, but it was told to me this past weekend that all the judges were talking about the new system during the contest. That KCBS is tracking their scores across contests. Some judges have already received letters because their judging is way off from the norm and some have been banned. It stuck me as odd and inaccurate, but was curious if anyone could confirm or deny that this was the case?

I can't imaging KCBS moving that fast on anything (except maybe a penis apron)
 
My cynical side says:
frozenover_sm.jpg

But if the judges' rumor mill is spinning in that direction, well and good. Just giving thought that it *might* happen might give some judges pause. And for the majority that are handing down thoughtful, well-considered scores, well, what would they have to worry about?

Not every bite in a box is the same. What qualifies an individual to get dinged? What about the judge that gets the one piece of pork 'bark' that is just burnt fat or the one "burnt end" that is not rendered. Scoring them according to their actual taste and tenderness makes them an outlier at that table so they get "written up".
 
Not every bite in a box is the same. What qualifies an individual to get dinged? What about the judge that gets the one piece of pork 'bark' that is just burnt fat or the one "burnt end" that is not rendered. Scoring them according to their actual taste and tenderness makes them an outlier at that table so they get "written up".

If they actually do this here's your future:

888 888 888 888 888 888
 
My cynical side says:
frozenover_sm.jpg

But if the judges' rumor mill is spinning in that direction, well and good. Just giving thought that it *might* happen might give some judges pause. And for the majority that are handing down thoughtful, well-considered scores, well, what would they have to worry about?

I have to disagree with this - When / If KCBS starts sending letters out and banning judges for "not in line" judging then the whole process is useless! Our Q will not be judged fairly by the judges out of fear that they will be written up or banned from judging. What happens when that judge that is handing down thoughtful, well-considered scores gets a sub-par entry? Does he/she not give it a rightful score for fear that thier "average" will go down? Or that judge on infamous Table 5 who thinks that what they cook in their back yard is better than everything there - you know the guy/gal who doesn't give anything higher than a 7. Does he/she start dishing out 8's and 9's for fear of banishment?

Now I am a competitor (never judged) so I have had many moments where I said 'What the hell are those judges thinking? That was the best chicken/ribs/pork/brisket I ever cooked" and ended up middle of the pack or worse. Or even take a 1st in a category one week and the next week not walk doing the same exact thing! So I know and understand the frustrations and confusions when it comes to judging. I think we all need to take a moment and realize that every competition is different - different meat (not the same exact cow, pig, chicken), different tables, different judges, different altitude/humidity/temperature, different teams, etc...But the underlying constant we see is that the "Top" teams continue to win! Not only winning on thier home filed but winning when they travel to other states as well. They are winning where the "difference" is multiplied many times.

I can only see that if KCBS starts "judging the judges" and pushes them to the "norm" then we as competitiors will still not be happy with the outcome! If this happens remember this post at the next comp you go to and there is a 5 way tie for 1st in chicken!
 
Not every bite in a box is the same. What qualifies an individual to get dinged? What about the judge that gets the one piece of pork 'bark' that is just burnt fat or the one "burnt end" that is not rendered. Scoring them according to their actual taste and tenderness makes them an outlier at that table so they get "written up".

We're not talking about a single score in a single category at a single event. The judge's scoring data is useful because it is going to identify those who are outside of the norm on both the high and low sides over a number of categories at a number of contests.

Individual scores are not necessecarily indicative of anyone's average and I certainly wouldn't want to see a judge be confronted for giving an honest score to a single entry.

The real elephant in the room is that for the first time, teams are going to see just how good or how bad the KCBS judging system really is. I have always believed that if a judge cannot articulate their reasoning behind the score he/she gave to an entry they have no business judging in the first place. That's why I have always been a proponent of mandatory comment cards for any score of 5 or lower. Of course, the comment card system is temporarily, (most likely permanently), on hiatus so that really doesn't much matter.
 
This is complete hearsay, and what likely amounts to normal hobnobbing between judges across the tables to pass the time between categories, but it was told to me this past weekend that all the judges were talking about the new system during the contest. That KCBS is tracking their scores across contests. Some judges have already received letters because their judging is way off from the norm and some have been banned. It stuck me as odd and inaccurate, but was curious if anyone could confirm or deny that this was the case?

I don't know about any of this! I doubt any other board member does either. So I'd call bs on this one, until a judge showed a bona fide letter.
 
I don't know about any of this! I doubt any other board member does either. So I'd call bs on this one, until a judge showed a bona fide letter.

Thanks for the reply Candy! I figured as much, but thought it was interesting it was already being discussed around the tables.
 
Big concern is the bunching of the same teams' entries to different tables. Table captains make sure they haven't seen an entry before, but right now, there's no way to keep the same team entries from hitting the same tray going to a different table. Larger the contest, the less it's likely for this to happen. It is worrisome at smaller events though.
 
Candy, while we have you here, is there any concern/response to the scoring errors mentioned in this thread? Thanks!
 
Candy, while we have you here, is there any concern/response to the scoring errors mentioned in this thread? Thanks!

Responses related to issues at Glasgow have been addressed personally to those that filed an "official" complaint with KCBS. This isn't something that I feel comfortable with addressing here. I can assure that issues were quickly addressed and resolved by folks at KCBS. Results should be correct at kcbs.us now. Any team that cooked this contest can get corrected team detail and tally sheets from the office.
 
Responses related to issues at Glasgow have been addressed personally to those that filed an "official" complaint with KCBS. This isn't something that I feel comfortable with addressing here. I can assure that issues were quickly addressed and resolved by folks at KCBS. Results should be correct at kcbs.us now. Any team that cooked this contest can get corrected team detail and tally sheets from the office.

Candy, the greater issue is that there were scoring/calculation errors and that has now created doubt as to whether there are accuracy issues within the scoring program itself or if it was due to operator/input error. We are all certainly aware that mistakes will happen due to human error and we all know the GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) principle. We also know that KCBS will correct those problems including corrections to monies being properly distributed should that be necessary.

However, we also all want to be confident that the calculations being made within the program itself are correct and accurate. That is the question that most are likely to have after reading of the problems at the Glasgow event.

I don't care to know all the details of what happend at Glasgow and don't expect you to spell them out for us. But, I do expect that if the problems at Glasgow were due to issues with the scoring program itself and not operator/input error, that you would address that matter publicly and in detail.
 
I can appreciate not commenting on individual team's scores and resolutions related to their inquiries. What can you tell us about steps to prevent errors such as these from happening in the future?
 
As usual, Vince finished ahead of me and with a more complete entry. :icon_smile_tongue:
 
I went over to kcbs.us and had a peak. Apparently my 8th place finish is now a 10th! I have managed to learn how to blow points in the week after my cook is over! Do I just call up to the office to get an explanation of my scores changing after the fact?
 
Candy, the greater issue is that there were scoring/calculation errors and that has now created doubt as to whether there are accuracy issues within the scoring program itself or if it was due to operator/input error. We are all certainly aware that mistakes will happen due to human error and we all know the GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) principle. We also know that KCBS will correct those problems including corrections to monies being properly distributed should that be necessary.

However, we also all want to be confident that the calculations being made within the program itself are correct and accurate. That is the question that most are likely to have after reading of the problems at the Glasgow event.

I don't care to know all the details of what happend at Glasgow and don't expect you to spell them out for us. But, I do expect that if the problems at Glasgow were due to issues with the scoring program itself and not operator/input error, that you would address that matter publicly and in detail.

The Glasgow issue was not an issue with KCBScore. The contest has been re-entered multiple times, results as posted have been duplicated exactly. The program has integrity, it works as expected. If there were issues with KCBScore, I would say so. I have confidence that what happened at Glasgow was an aberration and steps are in place to rectify same going forward.
 
I may upset some folks but here's a thought. How about everyone is upset with table 4 or judge 6 or whatever the case may be just keep it to themselves. I have read every post on this thread. Some were good and others not so much. You would think that there were black helicopters flying over BBQ contest with sercret service agents talking into a judges earpiece on how to score the event.

Why can't some of you just understand that there is a new score sheet. Period. They aren't using comment cards for right now. Period. That some days you will turn in the same product and get 1st at one comp and 20th at another. Sometimes your food is great and some days it just flat out stinks. How about we all just embrace the changes that are taking place and see how it goes.

It's a new system. There are going to be mistakes. Deal with it and carry on.
 
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