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Hot-N-Fast Brisket + Smoke Ring Experiment

Interesting. I'm going to make a batch for future use. I can see how letting it set for a long while would help the flavors blend with one another. Do you use s and p only, or do you add anything else like garlic powder?
 
thirdeye said:
Then, a couple of years ago Thillin mentioned he was going through Lockhart and since they will sell the rub at both Kreuz and Smitty's (store only , not on their website) I asked for some of each. I hadn't been through there in 7 or 8 years. I immediately noticed the grind size and also noticed the flavors are better when it's mixed for a while, than when the three ingredients are combined at the last minute. Now I make large batches and store it in a mason jar.
Click to expand...

Donny's three ingredients in his video were salt, pepper and lemon pepper. Are these the same three ingredients in the Kreuz rub? If so, what would you say the grain size was for each of the three? Do you measure yours by weight or just use a consistent grain size?
 
Here's a few pics of my hot and fast kettle brisket smoke rings. These briskets turned out great and everyone really liked the flavor. I just use salt, pepper and graunulated garlic.

Picture021-3.jpg

Picture040-1.jpg
 
Saiko said:
Donny's three ingredients in his video were salt, pepper and lemon pepper. Are these the same three ingredients in the Kreuz rub? If so, what would you say the grain size was for each of the three? Do you measure yours by weight or just use a consistent grain size?
Click to expand...

DSC08376a.jpg

I'm using salt, pepper and cayenne. I have a feeling this is going to come down to a personal taste thing, and the finished "look" is going to be a good indicator. So, since I'm working from home today, I just went in and mixed a fresh batch. But let me start at the beginning and get back to the recipe I like the best. Like I mentioned, in the rub I'm using....the grind of the salt and cayenne is fine and the pepper is coarse, which leads to some settling issues if it's not in a big container which allows shaking before each use. Even when pouring it from the jar, it's hard to keep the mixture right so I take tablespoon sized scoops out and sprinkle them one at a time to insure the correct ratio of salt and pepper. (This is much easier than it sounds)

The various recipes I have in my notes are below. Donny indicated the ratios in #1. The others came from a newspaper article, a cook book, and a TV cooking host that had been to Kreuz Market. (When I used to sprinkle salt and pepper on by hand on by hand I would guess the salt to pepper ratio to be 2:1).

------------------
#1
1 cup salt
1/2 cup pepper
-------------------
#2
1 Cup fine salt
1/2 Cup coarse pepper
cayenne
-------------------------
#3
3/4 C salt
1/4 C black pepper
2-3 T Cayenne
-------------------------------
#4
3/4 cup salt
1/4 cup cracked black peppercorns
2 to 3 tablespoons cayenne pepper
-----------------------------------


From the looks of the salt/pepper ratio - #3, and #4 looked like the rub I got from Kreuz and Smittys. The salt was off-white indicating the cayenne, and you could taste it too. (During the time I was using them, I did wind up adding some additional black pepper to them).

When I made my first batch from a recipe, I went heavier on the pepper like the ratio in #2, but I found that the cayenne called for was more than the Smitty's or Kreuz rub had. It was too over powering. I also found that in addition to coarse pepper, a little regular grind black pepper helped keep everything a little more balanced.


Now the recipe I use is:

1-1/2 Cup canning salt
1/3 Cup coarse black pepper
1 Tablespoon regular grind black pepper
2 Tablespoons Cayenne


Here is a shot right before mixing, and a shot of it all mixed up.


DSC08377aa.jpg
​


DSC08378a.jpg
​
 
thirdeye said:
DSC08376a.jpg

I'm using salt, pepper and cayenne. I have a feeling this is going to come down to a personal taste thing, and the finished "look" is going to be a good indicator. So, since I'm working from home today, I just went in and mixed a fresh batch. But let me start at the beginning and get back to the recipe I like the best. Like I mentioned, in the rub I'm using....the grind of the salt and cayenne is fine and the pepper is coarse, which leads to some settling issues if it's not in a big container which allows shaking before each use. Even when pouring it from the jar, it's hard to keep the mixture right so I take tablespoon sized scoops out and sprinkle them one at a time to insure the correct ratio of salt and pepper. (This is much easier than it sounds)

The various recipes I have in my notes are below. Donny indicated the ratios in #1. The others came from a newspaper article, a cook book, and a TV cooking host that had been to Kreuz Market. (When I used to sprinkle salt and pepper on by hand on by hand I would guess the salt to pepper ratio to be 2:1).

------------------
#1
1 cup salt
1/2 cup pepper
-------------------
#2
1 Cup fine salt
1/2 Cup coarse pepper
cayenne
-------------------------
#3
3/4 C salt
1/4 C black pepper
2-3 T Cayenne
-------------------------------
#4
3/4 cup salt
1/4 cup cracked black peppercorns
2 to 3 tablespoons cayenne pepper
-----------------------------------


From the looks of the salt/pepper ratio - #3, and #4 looked like the rub I got from Kreuz and Smittys. The salt was off-white indicating the cayenne, and you could taste it too. (During the time I was using them, I did wind up adding some additional black pepper to them).

When I made my first batch from a recipe, I went heavier on the pepper like the ratio in #2, but I found that the cayenne called for was more than the Smitty's or Kreuz rub had. It was too over powering. I also found that in addition to coarse pepper, a little regular grind black pepper helped keep everything a little more balanced.


Now the recipe I use is:

1-1/2 Cup canning salt
1/3 Cup coarse black pepper
1 Tablespoon regular grind black pepper
2 Tablespoons Cayenne


Here is a shot right before mixing, and a shot of it all mixed up.


DSC08377aa.jpg
​


DSC08378a.jpg
​
Click to expand...

ok so the recipe, how much do you put on and how long before cooking do you put it on? also would you use the TQ, rinse it off then use your mixture? and is that your rub? nothing else added?
 
3739875693_99a9f110cd_o.jpg

Here the high heater I made. Not much of a smoke ring. Meat was not very cold when I started and it went into high heat right away. Was not in the 140 SR range for very long. So it seems to support the thoeries in this thread. I didnt use TQ either. It was still a dang good briskie and very juicy.:-D
 
I don't recall the pepper being a course grind at either Smitty's or Kreuz. When we spoke with John Fullilove at Smitty's he indicated only Salt, Pepper, and Cayenne.
 
This is all very cool. Thanks for sharing. I did a 14lb packer this past weekend with a heavy dose of Donnie's Dalmatian rub using kosher salt. I found it a bit too much to use at a comp but my kids thought is was great. Next time I will lighten up on it just a bit. I know no pictures.

I can tell you from experience do not try what Wayne did using pink salt. Did it once and the very corned beef smoke ring was more than half way through. Looked awful.

This is all very informative so again thanks.
 
bacardi2001 said:
ok so the recipe, how much do you put on and how long before cooking do you put it on? also would you use the TQ, rinse it off then use your mixture? and is that your rub? nothing else added?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's all I use on brisket. When I started paying attention on how to cook brisket, salt and pepper were the main seasoning my grandpa used, and there very well may have been other adders (but that was over 35 years ago....) I do know that the other rule was never use sugar. That was drilled in from day one.

If you use TQ, it's only a quick application. Many cooks go less than 10 minutes. Then rinse it all off, rest about an hour in the fridge, and then season and cook just like you normally would do.

ZILLA said:
I don't recall the pepper being a course grind at either Smitty's or Kreuz. When we spoke with John Fullilove at Smitty's he indicated only Salt, Pepper, and Cayenne.
Click to expand...

Did you have the clod? The pepper was always noticeable from what I recall. I'll take your word for it because you have me at a disadvantage.... I have only eaten at the original Kreuz Market before the name change to Smitty's. I moved from Texas in 1970 or 1971. The next time I went back was in the mid '90's, but that was before the break up too. I have some of the rub from Smitty's that thillin sent, I'll check it out.

Cigarbque said:
This is all very cool. Thanks for sharing. I did a 14lb packer this past weekend with a heavy dose of Donnie's Dalmatian rub using kosher salt. I found it a bit too much to use at a comp but my kids thought is was great. Next time I will lighten up on it just a bit. I know no pictures.

I can tell you from experience do not try what Wayne did using pink salt. Did it once and the very corned beef smoke ring was more than half way through. Looked awful.

This is all very informative so again thanks.
Click to expand...

You are right, pink salt contains 6% nitrates, and TQ only contains 1% nitrates. PInk salt might work if you let it work for 3 or 4 minutes.
 
Originally Posted by ZILLA
I don't recall the pepper being a course grind at either Smitty's or Kreuz. When we spoke with John Fullilove at Smitty's he indicated only Salt, Pepper, and Cayenne.
Click to expand...

Did you have the clod? The pepper was always noticeable from what I recall. I'll take your word for it because you have me at a disadvantage.... I have only eaten at the original Kreuz Market before the name change to Smitty's. I moved from Texas in 1970 or 1971. The next time I went back was in the mid '90's, but that was before the break up too. I have some of the rub from Smitty's that thillin sent, I'll check it out
Click to expand...

Zilla, I looked at the last of the rub I have from Smitty's. It has coarse pepper. Not as coarse as the stuff in my earlier picture. (The shop I get that from calls it 1/4 cracked)
 
I know this post is a few years olds, but I am not smart enough to smoke a brisket with a real fire, lol. I wish I could but I would throw away more briskets then I could eat. I use a Electric Smoker and I have no complaints about the flavor or tenderness. My biggest issue is obtaining a smoke ring. I guess you could say being here in Houston having a smoke ring is like judging a book by it's cover.

Anyway, I have researched to the end of the internet looking on how to obtain that smoke ring and it seems like my best resource is to use Morton's Tender Quick. I was looking at all the photos and reading the posts and I noticed that the brisket is cooked with the fat side down. I have read where most people prefer fat side up and fewer with the fat side down. I always do fat side up, so here is my question..... Being I cook fat side up would the TQ have any effect on the meat if I put it on the fatty side? If I did, should I let it stay on a little longer or will it not even penetrate the fat?

BTW, I have really enjoyed reading about this topic
 
go77377 said:
I know this post is a few years olds, but I am not smart enough to smoke a brisket with a real fire, lol. I wish I could but I would throw away more briskets then I could eat. I use a Electric Smoker and I have no complaints about the flavor or tenderness. My biggest issue is obtaining a smoke ring. I guess you could say being here in Houston having a smoke ring is like judging a book by it's cover.

Anyway, I have researched to the end of the internet looking on how to obtain that smoke ring and it seems like my best resource is to use Morton's Tender Quick. I was looking at all the photos and reading the posts and I noticed that the brisket is cooked with the fat side down. I have read where most people prefer fat side up and fewer with the fat side down. I always do fat side up, so here is my question..... Being I cook fat side up would the TQ have any effect on the meat if I put it on the fatty side? If I did, should I let it stay on a little longer or will it not even penetrate the fat?

BTW, I have really enjoyed reading about this topic
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with TQ chemistry to assist on that question..

Just my observation here over the years... the majority here appear to cook fat cap down, not up.. this may be more of a result of newer members following what others with experience have done and/or the type of pit being used and how the heat flows through it.
 
MilitantSquatter said:
I'm not familiar with TQ chemistry to assist on that question..

Just my observation here over the years... the majority here appear to cook fat cap down, not up.. this may be more of a result of newer members following what others with experience have done and/or the type of pit being used and how the heat flows through it.
Click to expand...

I guess the reasoning from what I understand is so that the juices from the fat can seep into the meat?
 
go77377 said:
I guess the reasoning from what I understand is so that the juices from the fat can seep into the meat?
Click to expand...


The "seeping in" vs. "rolling off the sides" vs. "burning off without going either in or around " debate will go on forever.. I don't think there's much conclusive evidence for either side of it as the pit door is closed when the fat breaks down.
 
Wow, thanks for the great - and detailed - info. And great photos.
 
I appreciate you going through the steps and explaining how to make something so darn beautiful!:clap2:
 
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