Smoke'n Ice
is one Smokin' Farker
Exactly where does it state this?
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KCBS Pork Rule
- Thread starter White Dog BBQ
- Start date
Exactly where does it state this?
Pappy Q
is Blowin Smoke!
So........is it a MM category or a farking pork category?
musicmanryann
is Blowin Smoke!
The first part of the rule defines what 'PORK" is. It then goes on to say, after trimming, "PORK" shall be cooked whole. I'd say it says it right there exactly.
musicmanryann
is Blowin Smoke!
Pork.
musicmanryann
is Blowin Smoke!
The rep advisories are not meant to supersede any rule, but rather articulate and/or clarify how the rep should interpret a rule. This is important as it is always up the the rep as to what is allowed and what is not at any given contest. In this case Rep advisory 4.11 clarifies exactly what the word "pork" is to mean in the pork rule:
4.11 Pork Collar
The board was asked to address the issue, if the cut known as “pork collar” is a legal cut for purposes of entry in a KCBS contest.
Opinion: The Boards answer is no.
Rule 10 states:
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the meat once separated be returned to a cooker.
The KCBS Board of Directors has adopted the National Pork Board’s definitions which define the standard for cuts of Boston Butt (item 406 bone in or without bone), Picnic (item 405 bone in or without bone) and/or Whole Shoulder (item 403). Pork Collar is not included in these approved “American” definitions of food service cuts of pork. Therefore pork collar is not an acceptable cut to be approved at meat inspection or turned in for the purposes of competition under the rules of KCBS. In the event a pork collar cut is turned in it shall receive a score of 1 by all judges in all criteria as a foreign object being a non-approved cut of meat.
Given that reps are instructed to define "Pork" in this way, I would interpret this to say if at any point prior to "Pork" being "cooked' I must be within this definition. In other words, if, prior to it being cooked, I trim it down to something that is not item 406, 405, or 403, it is an illegal cut.
Smoke'n Ice
is one Smokin' Farker
The money muscle is pork!
musicmanryann
is Blowin Smoke!
Not according to the KCBS definition.
Smoke'n Ice
is one Smokin' Farker
I believe that the way the rule is written is part of the problem. Each person reads it the way they want to interpret it, not the way that the board meant or the intent of the rule. With a minor amount of clarification by the BOD, there would be no room for this. Write the rule so that it clearly conveys the intent and reasoning with minimal room for interpretation.
If I trim the butt that meets the definition after inspection and only cook that which is left after trimming then I am within the rule. If I try cook some of the trimmings, then I parted the pork and that is illegal.
Who says what constitutes trimming other that removing what is not needed or wanted? If the only thing I want or need is the MM, then so be it, I waste a bunch of money but it is my money.
musicmanryann
is Blowin Smoke!
The first part of the rule clearly defines what "pork" is and then goes on to say "pork" has to be cooked whole. It seems intentional to me. If you trim it to something that does not meet the definition of "pork" it is illegal.
When it comes down to it, I am merely trying to point out how KCBS may interpret the new rule to keep people from getting in trouble. Personally I will continue cooking my 10 pound pork butts whole.
I am curious if anyone has other substantive issues with the modified rule, beyond it allowing smaller cuts?
When it comes down to it, I am merely trying to point out how KCBS may interpret the new rule to keep people from getting in trouble. Personally I will continue cooking my 10 pound pork butts whole.
I am curious if anyone has other substantive issues with the modified rule, beyond it allowing smaller cuts?
Smoke'n Ice
is one Smokin' Farker
Don't get me wrong. I am from NC and firmly believe that if you can slice it, it aint done. That being said, if you trim it and it weights less than 4 pounds after trimming, it does not meet the definition according to your interpretation whether all the muscles remain intact or not.
musicmanryann
is Blowin Smoke!
Correct
musicmanryann
is Blowin Smoke!
I could be wrong, but I am guessing this is why they wanted to leave the 5 pound minimum rule out to begin with--also why it likely passed with the addition of the 4 lb minimum. It is an arbitrary weight given you can only go so small on a shoulder whilst keeping it within the boundaries of the definition.
Hawg Father of Seoul
is Blowin Smoke!
Yeah, I would have to say that just the part I highlighted is enough to illuminate my point. That rep advisory clarifies the OLD rule, not the new one.
Other than that we will have to agree to disagree and I, as you, will continue to cook the big butts whole.
But come on, who was the DA to throw in 4 pounds? :caked:
dmprantz
is Blowin Smoke!
Good info! One of the things that I wondered a bit is what happens if according to IMPS/NAMP if a 403A (Pork Shoulder, Long Cut) is then further butched as described for 406? Does any one do that? Is it still considered a 406, is it some other cut? Must a 406 come from a 403? If so, what does the above cut become? Something without number?
Before any one says that the above doesn't mention 403A, my question is about what does IMPS/NAMP consider a valid 406? Also, even though it's not described above, KCBS allows a 405A and 406A (boneless versions), so non-listed variants are legal in some situations.
Talk to your rep of course ;-)
dmp
HawgPound
Found some matches.
Trotters are pork. Chitlins are pork. Pork meatballs are pork. Ribs are pork. Should you be able to turn in ribs as your pork entry? I say no. When we say " pork" we should be saying "pork entry as defined by the KCBS rules"
djqualls
Full Fledged Farker
Not to hijack but.... This whole rules confusion is the product of teleconference meetings.
No organization can adequately function when their business is conducted via teleconference only. The BoD has too many members as it is. The rules should be written plain and simple with foot notes to the intention. When you write a constitutional essay for each rule you get the KCBS catalog of Pork Rules...
After cooking 36 contests in 11 different states this year, No two were regulated with any consistency. This is a Administrative deficiency in which in turn once again is a BoD responsibility which will never be addressed telephonically.
It would seem from the outside looking in that the whole organization needs an update/overhaul. This whole Pork debacle represents that, but that won't happen until the money runs out I suppose.
No organization can adequately function when their business is conducted via teleconference only. The BoD has too many members as it is. The rules should be written plain and simple with foot notes to the intention. When you write a constitutional essay for each rule you get the KCBS catalog of Pork Rules...
After cooking 36 contests in 11 different states this year, No two were regulated with any consistency. This is a Administrative deficiency in which in turn once again is a BoD responsibility which will never be addressed telephonically.
It would seem from the outside looking in that the whole organization needs an update/overhaul. This whole Pork debacle represents that, but that won't happen until the money runs out I suppose.
Bubba
Full Fledged Farker
Amen brother.
djqualls
Full Fledged Farker
CBQ
is One Chatty Farker
I agree, rules should be simply stated. As written, it's quite clear in it's intent. People are trying to twist it into something it's not by saying stuff like "What does Pork mean anyway?" but that's trying to inject a lot of legalese into a rule that is (rightly) a few sentences.
You have to cook a shoulder, boston butt, or a picnic. You can't cut it up into little pieces until it's cooked. After that, you can. Simply. Easy. We know what it means. The reps know what it means. Trying to wordsmith it into something else is a waste of time.
