KCBS judges and Team Score Sheets

New Pal Frank

New Pal Frank

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Why do some judges come by after awards wanting to look at the teams KCBScore sheets?

I feel like this defeats part of the blind judging is as much as the judge knows what table and seat he was in and knows the people sitting with them.

As a team member, I did this once and the feedback I got from the judge made me cringe. I will never do it again.

Your thoughts PLEASE.
 
So far this hasn't happened to us. One judged asked which table had the first place ribs, but that's the only question we have received.
 
They were mentioning names and seat #'s, and coments that were made after the score sheets were passed to the TC.
 
I think this is going to be a issue that KCBS is going to have to address quickly. I would like for judges to have a way to see how they scored compared to the rest of their table but all the additional information is not needed by the judges and I think has potential to cause some problems. keith
 
mobow said:
I think this is going to be a issue that KCBS is going to have to address quickly. I would like for judges to have a way to see how they scored compared to the rest of their table but all the additional information is not needed by the judges and I think has potential to cause some problems. keith
Click to expand...


As a reletively new judge (10 contests in the last year), this would be the only interest I have in seeing the sheet, and no, I have not seen nor asked for a copy. I would like to see where I sit compared to the others at my table. I could care less to see the team, the team number, or the other tables. My goal as a judge is to be the fairest for all teams.
 
I'm a relatively new judge, too, and I would never even consider asking to see a team's score sheet! Sure, I am curious about how the other judges at my table scored some entries, but I can usually get a feel for that when chatting between meats. After judging, I usually hang out at the comp, have a few beers and stick around for the awards... I know a few teams that compete, and I wouldn't even consider asking to see their score sheets. Just doesn't seem right.
 
mobow said:
I think this is going to be a issue that KCBS is going to have to address quickly. I would like for judges to have a way to see how they scored compared to the rest of their table but all the additional information is not needed by the judges and I think has potential to cause some problems. keith
Click to expand...

Already in the works. There's some tweeking going on right now on KCBScore. As a cook, I love the additional information. But I'd never share my score sheets with any judge after the event, don't care to lose friends!

Please note that none of the info above is secret! This happened as part of the business of the last board meeting. And the opinion stuff is mine alone.
 
At the last contest I judged the reps emphasized NOT to tell any teams what table and seat number the judges were at. I myself would love to get the information for my table to see how the scores compared. I would also like to see the overall results sheets, I wish there was a way those could be available online. Just for my reading pleasure of course, lol.
 
When I first started judging, I asked the TC from time to time how my scores compared to the other judges at the table. Usually I was right there with the other judges at the table. I don't see a problem with this, as long as actul scores are not given out.
I don't feel the judges need to see the other judges scores and I don't think the teams need any help identfing any of the judges.
As a cook, I like the additional info that the new sheets give me. What teams were at my table, how I finished at my table and so on.
 
Since it's all blind judging, judges seeing the sheets after the fact I do not see a problem with. If a judge has the guts to ask to see a score sheet, then to put himself/herself in a bad position with the team standing before them, and have to explain why they gave them a bad score, so be it.
 
Podge said:
Since it's all blind judging, judges seeing the sheets after the fact I do not see a problem with. If a judge has the guts to ask to see a score sheet, then to put himself/herself in a bad position with the team standing before them, and have to explain why they gave them a bad score, so be it.
Click to expand...

It is quite likely that unless it was very good or very bad the judge would not remember what score they gave every single entry they judged in every category.
 
Why is this a problem? By hiding score sheets and information you are just increasing the division between judges and cooks.

In MBN and MIM Judges come back and talk to you about what they saw and how to improve...THIS IS ENCOURAGED. Not prohibited. Get with the program KCBS
 
TooSaucedToPork said:
Why is this a problem? By hiding score sheets and information you are just increasing the division between judges and cooks.

In MBN and MIM Judges come back and talk to you about what they saw and how to improve...THIS IS ENCOURAGED. Not prohibited. Get with the program KCBS
Click to expand...

Uhm, no. Thanks.
 
QN said:
It is quite likely that unless it was very good or very bad the judge would not remember what score they gave every single entry they judged in every category.
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I may not remember every score for every box, but I do remember those that stood out as great and those that were not so great. I also will remember a box if it has an different layout than what is normally seen. At a contest earlier this year I stopped to talk to a team and they showed me a picture of their brisket box and we did have it at my table. I would have no problem giving my opinion of their entry and why I scored it as I did. The last contest I did I recognized the sausage box from a team that I cooked with to get my masters. I gave it high marks as did the rest of the table and it wound up taking 2nd. I also found out after talking to that team my table had judged their pork box as well. This could be an issue if a judge knows what a teams box looks like. I try my best to be impartial and fair to all entries, but some judges may be influenced one way or the other.
 
TooSaucedToPork said:
Why?
What is so bad about breaking down the walls? What are people scared of....honesty?
Click to expand...

Two different systems. MIM/MBN has a system that works for what they do. KCBS has a system that is based on blind judging. What you propose threatens the integrity of that system.

Pick one or the other. That doesn't mean that judges can't come out and talk to cooks. It doesn't mean that they can't have dinner on Friday night. It should mean that they shouldn't be studying the score sheet and comparing notes on Sat. afternoon.

Goody bags next?
 
Jorge said:
Two different systems. MIM/MBN has a system that works for what they do. KCBS has a system that is based on blind judging. What you propose threatens the integrity of that system.

Pick one or the other. That doesn't mean that judges can't come out and talk to cooks. It doesn't mean that they can't have dinner on Friday night. It should mean that they shouldn't be studying the score sheet and comparing notes on Sat. afternoon.

Goody bags next?
Click to expand...

Mbn also uses blind judging...
 
At a recent contest one of the teams asked which table I sat at and I told them I don't kiss and tell.
While visiting before or after turn ins, when a team starts talking about their box attributes or showing phone pics, I avoid the information. I as a judge don't want to know how you lay out your box or even see a picture of it.
That being said I've always contended that cooks could bring their box to the table and set there and watch and they would get the same score vs normal procedure.
Ed
 
TooSaucedToPork said:
Mbn also uses blind judging...
Click to expand...

I understand that.

For KCBS I think it's great for judges to spend time with cooks. I've got no problem if a team wants to give a judge a sample after judging and ask for feedback. As long as that feedback is about that sample, and not judging I think that's a win/win for everyone.

I've got no problem with a judge talking about the overall quality of entries. I can live with a judge characterizing the dominant flavor profile as sweet with some heat, etc... In KCBS I'd prefer that they not come out and describe, in detail the layout/presentation of a killer new idea, etc.

I know that I'm drawing a very fine line and that it may be hypocritical.
 
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