The new (again) revised pork rule for 2014

Is the new revised pork rule good for BBQ?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 33 28.2%

  • No!

    Votes: 18 15.4%

  • Meh

    Votes: 19 16.2%

  • Pork is now a grilling contest

    Votes: 5 4.3%

  • Nothing changes for me

    Votes: 34 29.1%

  • Farker!

    Votes: 8 6.8%
  • Total voters
    117
Got to watch that weight rule with the crap farmland has been putting out. Untrimmed 4lb 8.9oz garbage

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Nordy said:
Basically everyone will interpret the rule as they wish... 90% of the KCBS rules are not enforceable anyway... Cheaters will always cheat.

The rule is straightforward. Cook a WHOLE piece of meat. Once it's cooked do whatever you want with it within food safety guidelines.

TRIMMING does not equal PARTING.
Click to expand...

True, trimming in my mind is cutting away the excess and parts I don't want to use. Parting is taking a piece I want to use, and separating it into smaller parts.

Now, If i want to just use the MM portion of the butt, wouldn't trimming and tossing the rest of the butt follow my above definition and also the wording of the rules? Keep in mind the rule says "after trimming, pork shall be cooked whole." and that MM is pork butt.

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand the spirit of the rule and I would go with that, but I am just pointing out how the wording of the rule opens up a can of worms.
 
Pigs on Fire said:
Hey Skip.... I ain't in a 4-year battle over the rule. My team cooks pork following the current rules and will continue to do so. From reading stuff here and seeing how many butts many teams cook, we probably don't follow the procedure many to and I'm willing to bet we put similar portions in the box.

We've done fairly well in the pork category over the last 24-30 months, I don't see much changing in our camp....new rule or not.

Carry on, I'll continue to watch the show from the bleachers when I'm bored.
Click to expand...

Hey Pigs. I understand you aren't but the original rule was called into question because people were separating after the cook as well as butterflying the whole butt down and doing what you described. That is the reason I made the statement about the 4 year battle. Not saying you started it. :grin:
 
Last edited:
Nordy said:
Basically everyone will interpret the rule as they wish... 90% of the KCBS rules are not enforceable anyway... Cheaters will always cheat.

The rule is straightforward. Cook a WHOLE piece of meat. Once it's cooked do whatever you want with it within food safety guidelines.

TRIMMING does not equal PARTING.
Click to expand...

Many times cheaters are found out soon enough. They act suspicious and the group around them is too competitive to not become suspicious.

That depends on the definition of trimming. If the trim involves removing distinguishable muscle groups in the shoulder, butt or picnic you aren't trimming anymore. You are manipulating the piece of meat. I think this is why the "cooked whole" portion of the definition was reintroduced.
 
TailGateJoecom said:
Here's the rule:

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder. After trimming, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those.

Now, the rule states it must be cooked "whole" but "after trimming." Now , with no weight limit, it could be argued that trimming the butt down to just the MM would be allowed. There is nothing stating how big the butt needs to be, or that the butt needs to be a whole butt. Heck, if I trim anything edible from a butt, or a brisket, or my spare ribs, am I not cooking a less-than-whole piece of meat? A competitor wanting to not play within the spirit of the rule but instead wanting to play semantics could just say he took the butt and trimmed off the part he didn't want to use, everything except the MM portion, and then cooked the remainder as a whole to 145, and then split the MM in half to get more bark.

So, now what is the definition of trimming? lol
Click to expand...

By changing the cut of meat to accommodate your wishes you aren't trimming. You are butchering. Trimming is removing the untidy or inedible portions of the meat to prepare it for the cook not to create a piece of meat you want. If you were asked to cook a rack of lamb or pork crown roast and trimmed it to chops it would be wrong. If it comes off the pit as a piece if meat that doesn't resemble the one you are supposed to cook no semantics in the world will change that.
 
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Skip said:
By allowing any technique you dumb down the skills needed and make it "easybake" BBQ.
Click to expand...

Like the other 3 categories?

Skip said:
This rule seems to be very similar to the BBQ-Brethren rule set which has served its event flawlessly in the past few years. Many cooks like the extra clarity and the fact that the rule is still a guideline rather than a directive.
Click to expand...

So if its a guideline then what are the repercussions for not following it? Isn't a guideline nothing more than a suggestion?

How do you enforce the 145* temperature? If a rep doesn't come and temp each one before they are removed aren't we once again just relying on the integrity of the individual? In this instance the KCBS BoD decided that imposing a minimum temperature would be unenforceable so they left it out.
 
Skip said:
Its the last sentence of the rule. Something along the lines "can be turned in as pulled chopped sliced or and combination..."
Click to expand...

The part I do not understand is why they think this is necessary. They do not pull a Bubba Gump and list all the ways you can turn in chicken.
 
I liked the old rule better. I would have preferred they left the pork rule alone.


And change the brisket rule. Muaaahaahaaa ...meh
 
Muzzlebrake said:
How do you enforce the 145* temperature? If a rep doesn't come and temp each one before they are removed aren't we once again just relying on the integrity of the individual?
Click to expand...

Sean is right - we all know reps are not walked around and looking in people's pits. There is no guarantee that what someone shows during meat inspection is even going in the pit.

The rules will never overcome that unless we want an army of auditors roaming the cook sites.

To me, the purpose of the rules is to define an even playing field by which we all compete. It's up to the integrity of the teams to follow those.

The new rule more clearly defines what is intended. The intention is clear - you have to cook a whole cut of meat, but you can glaze, reheat, or cook bits of the whole cut to a different temp after cooking the basic piece whole.

If people want to wiggle out of that based on semantics, they will. They could cheat in a whole host of ways because cooks aren't watched that closely.

The other question is: how much of an advantage is it? If you can't win cooking a pork butt, is just cooking a money muscle really going to help you? I doubt it.
 
Muzzlebrake said:
Like the other 3 categories?
Click to expand...

No not at all. Each category is its own animal. It would be comparing apples and oranges.

Muzzlebrake said:
So if its a guideline then what are the repercussions for not following it? Isn't a guideline nothing more than a suggestion?

How do you enforce the 145* temperature? If a rep doesn't come and temp each one before they are removed aren't we once again just relying on the integrity of the individual? In this instance the KCBS BoD decided that imposing a minimum temperature would be unenforceable so they left it out.
Click to expand...

Its all a guideline. The 145 degree was a food safety number to give those who would question the definition of cooked in the rule.
A guideline can also be a standard operating procedure upon which each team is asked to follow. Without constant oversight the rule set is not there to be enforced but rather followed. Once the competitor loses their integrity the rule set falls apart.
 
Skip said:
No not at all. Each category is its own animal. It would be comparing apples and oranges.



Its all a guideline. The 145 degree was a food safety number to give those who would question the definition of cooked in the rule.
A guideline can also be a standard operating procedure upon which each team is asked to follow. Without constant oversight the rule set is not there to be enforced but rather followed. Once the competitor loses their integrity the rule set falls apart.
Click to expand...


Exactly, the 145 was put in specifically to reinforce the safe serving temperature for those who say 'what does cooked mean'.
 
Skip said:
No not at all. Each category is its own animal. It would be comparing apples and oranges.

Its all a guideline. The 145 degree was a food safety number to give those who would question the definition of cooked in the rule.
A guideline can also be a standard operating procedure upon which each team is asked to follow. Without constant oversight the rule set is not there to be enforced but rather followed. Once the competitor loses their integrity the rule set falls apart.
Click to expand...

You really have me confused now. We're going to have to hash this out over a few Skippy Shakes :rockon:

Being able to part your pork is dumbing down contest to what was it "easy bake BBQ" but cooking store bought pieces of chicken somehow demonstrates a higher level of skill?

I thought you used the Brethren rule as an example of something that gave the cook a course of action that did not rely on their integrity? I still think its going to rely on a competitors integrity and willingness to abide by the rules. There aren't going to be reps verifying your pork is 145* @ the BoTB anymore than there are going to be KCBS reps making sure you don't return separated pork to your cooker at the Royal. Both are almost unenforceable rules that rely on cooks staying within the guidelines.

Like Chris said, cheaters are going to cheat. Myself, like the majority of folks here, don't feel the need to.
 
Muzzlebrake said:
You really have me confused now. We're going to have to hash this out over a few Skippy Shakes :rockon:

Being able to part your pork is dumbing down contest to what was it "easy bake BBQ" but cooking store bought pieces of chicken somehow demonstrates a higher level of skill?

I thought you used the Brethren rule as an example of something that gave the cook a course of action that did not rely on their integrity? I still think its going to rely on a competitors integrity and willingness to abide by the rules. There aren't going to be reps verifying your pork is 145* @ the BoTB anymore than there are going to be KCBS reps making sure you don't return separated pork to your cooker at the Royal. Both are almost unenforceable rules that rely on cooks staying within the guidelines.

Like Chris said, cheaters are going to cheat. Myself, like the majority of folks here, don't feel the need to.
Click to expand...


Yeah we are on the same page. Chicken has been shaped by the competitor unfortunately. Thigh nuggets in unnatural shapes that have taught the average judge to have an expectation. I would like to see a light and dark requirement to exhibit more skill. Although when you think about it the use of the chicken thigh is no different then the beef brisket or pork shoulder. Each is a specific portion of a whole animal. Oh and I can't wait for a shake or 4 :rockon:
 
Hawg Father of Seoul said:
The part I do not understand is why they think this is necessary. They do not pull a Bubba Gump and list all the ways you can turn in chicken.
Click to expand...

I think the reason for that is the idea of 6 portions. Most everyone slices brisket and chicken parts make 6 easy just like ribs. Slices would be the first idea ofr pork when considering that. As well it may have originally been a tip of the hat to the different regional preps.
 
I wish they'd just change the name of the category to "pulled pork". POOF!!! All confusion gone instantly!

Can I make the precious little medallions? Yes. Do I find it to be silly? Yes, but apparently there are many who get a warm/fuzzy from sliced. To each their own.
 
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