Propane at KCBS contests

I see all the points to allow propane, but I still feel like it is... somehow... dirty... using it for a contest. Maybe it's just me, but I could also see some zoning issues with the contest sites for having flammable and under pressure tanks in such close proximity to potential open fires, or at the very least sparks...

Jeff_in_KC said:

In regards to allowing propane cookers at a contest with tons of people crowded into a fairly tight area, I have one question...

Jim (River City Smokehouse), how are you feeling after the propane accident you had with your smoker a couple of years ago?

If it can happen to Jimmy, it can happen to anyone. And I certainly wouldn't want to be a team next to another team using propane when the schrapnel starts flying.

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If I recall correctly, Jim's accident happened with a gas assist on a stick burner. They are already legal and in use at every contest.

Plowboy said:

Or different STOKES for different folks... as it were.

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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

SirPorkaLot said:

Let's go back to basics, and see where the chips fall then.

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"Back to basics"

Interesting term. What exactly are the basics and who gets to decide what basics were. How basic is basic?

If you really went back to the basics then you're cooking in a hole in the ground over whatever wood you can find. Or do you only go back to the basic of cooking on an old oil barrel you found in a field?

Back to basics...only salt and pepper. No rubs or sauces?

It seems in many cases "back to basics" just means I don't want you to use anything different than what I'm using.

BBQ Grail said:

"Back to basics"

Interesting term. What exactly are the basics and who gets to decide what basics were. How basic is basic?

If you really went back to the basics then you're cooking in a hole in the ground over whatever wood you can find. Or do you only go back to the basic of cooking on an old oil barrel you found in a field?

Back to basics...only salt and pepper. No rubs or sauces?

It seems in many cases "back to basics" just means I don't want you to use anything different than what I'm using.

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Touche'

very valid points.

Gene01 said:

as an FYI, many of the board members do look at the forums on a reguar basis, they may not post often, they do want to stay in touch with what members think, I am not sure how this or any other rule vote may go, we will see...... some people think that we the board make up the agenda item rule requests, these are all from the membership, we just vote for or against what is presented to us... Linda Mulane collected this information from KCBS members at the rules meeting last month....

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Thanks Gene, but based on the comments on this forum it seems that the exact opposite happened at the Rules Meeting...

SirPorkaLot said:

Ditto that

outlaw pellets, electric blowers, stokers, gurus. Let's go back to basics, and see where the chips fall then.

If the do allow propane, I am bringing my fish cooker, and gonna boil me some ribs! :evil:

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I will proudly say that I can kick ass with a FEC or charcoal and wood. The cooker is not the answer, it is the cook.

I am completely against using propane or electric as a source of heat for competition. I can see some of Ford's points. But money should not be the end all for every situation. Here are my reasons why.

-I like knowing that I know the true meaning of bbq vs. grilling, something that the majority of americans don't. If we allow propane and electricity you can kiss that goodbye.
-Currently most competitions have a backyard competition as well. I know for me this was the first thing I entered and it hooked me enough to join KCBS and start competing. So I don't know if the train of thought that it will bring more joe q public's into the fold is really that valid.
-If things work out the way that Ford said they will then more restaurant rigs will show up and what will that do for entry fee's? They may go up. Expanding on that and my last point, I don't know how many joe q public's are going to show up with their propane weber if they are sitting next to a $10K ole hickory pit.
-Plus with the popularity that competition has going right now with TLC's pitmasters and the food network shows we would be in danger of losing the prestige that being a competitive bbq cooker has. If anyone can enter and compete with the $75 propane grill that they bought from walmart then why would a big time sponsor want to put forth any money? That's like Crayola sponsoring a coloring contest for Monet and 8 year old Johnny.
-plus why wouldn't anyone just bring their camper and cook everything in their propane oven if they had the option?
-I also see propane as a potential safety issue. Even if it hasn't happened yet, it only takes one death because of an explosion to ruin the image of competition bbq. Expanding on that maybe the use of propane assisted starters should be banned as well.
Having said all this, if it had to happen, I would be in favor of maybe two divisions of competition, one for charcoal and stick burners and the other for alternative fuels like propane and electricity.

I dont agree, people keep sayin that Propane isnt BBQ. If you look at the term BBQ, isnt a bbq a gathering of good people to enjoy fellowship on a nice sunny day. Isnt it more about being with friends and having a good time. The product is just smoked meat with some sauce on it. They say on many shows about bbq, that bbq is low and slow. Grilling is hot and fast. In the last couple of months, I have read more about hot and fast cooking than I have about low and slow. Kinda confusing why people are changing how they cook, but are so closed minded about what they cook on. I guess I say bring on the Propane, if good people come with it.

Dan

KC_Bobby said:

Can't - KCBS has a rule about open flame and digging a pit. If we outlaw guru's and augers and forced air - insulated smokers will be next, then the gauge of steel allowed on the smoke chamber, then a pit itself. And what about equipment outside the pit itself? No campers or trailers. Can we have cots?

Am I exaggerating? Guess that's subjective too.

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Why is there no line in the sand in between "Hole in the ground" and "anything goes"?

You are 100% correct, this is somewhat subjective, but that doesn't mean you can't pick a spot on that continuum, subjectively, and say "this best represents the spirit of American Barbeque". I think you can. And I think that line doesn't include Gas and Electric as part of the cooking and cooking control process.

If the goal is to get the largest contests, with the biggest prize pool, and the most exposure, then "let it roll" is the way to go. No doubt about it.

If you want to balance some sense of rustic heritage with the reality of the modern times, you need to pick a point somewhere else along the line. This doesn't require writing rules to the minutiae.

As always, just my opinion. Good discussion as always.

I can see pros and cons. But at the end of the day my vote would be NO propane. If we do allow propane then open it up to electric and everything else. Then let's just have a meat contest - becasue IMHO we couldn't call it BBQ.

NateOwsley said:

money should not be the end all for every situation.

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Hear, hear.

G$ said:

Why is there no line in the sand in between "Hole in the ground" and "anything goes"?

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I would say that there is -- it's the current rules.

KCBS has already made changes with the times to allow things like pellet cookers etc., and those changes are still a subject of continuous debate. Why heap on more changes that blur the line with backyard grilling, further confusing the core concept that this organization was intended to preserve?

I would far rather see KCBS fully utilize the potential of their current Competitor Series, set up expressly to allow entry-level contestants to participate on their existing equipment.

Plowboy said:

If propane is allowed, then can I use butane? I can 100% promise you that if gas is allowed, you'll see me crisping up my chicken skin or setting my sauce with a torch.

Smoked Chicken Brulee!!!!

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oh yea that never happens now!!! right can you feel the sarcasum

i have to say i dont want any electric alowed on cookers... no guru no fans nuthin... and i can say this because i used all of them. I do understand thay are a tool to help but i think that you dont need help... wood and charcoal... and your good to go...that being said i will be doind my chicken on my treiger this year lol...

I just read through all this and thought I'd pop in my two cents. There are really two basic issues here. One financial and one traditional. In a time of ever decreasing membership and dues collection, KCBS has to look at expanding their base in order to continue to be successful as a business. Only they can decide if it is their mission or not to allow different fuel sources in and then we, as members, have to decide with our dollars whether we will continue to support that vision.

Tradition - change is always hard. Traditions are what keep cultures alive and families together. Think of the Jews over all those years of persecution and their continued existence and then think about your own family traditions around the holidays. Those are powerful feelings and are not without significant value, emotionally, and ultimately financially as we choose where to spend our money.

So what to do? Here are a couple of my thoughts. First, BBQ is about cooking. Traditionalists will say it is over an open flame, low and slow, modernists may say it is about the product and not the means. So let KCBS open it to alternative forms of combustion. Maybe to begin with we have two divisions. Non-electric/gas powered, such as traditional wood, coals and lump, and then an everything else section - gas, electric, pellet poopers, etc. And we keep them separate for a bit. Maybe having a 75/25 split in awards or split based on numbers in the division. 25 of each gets a 50/50 split of prizes, there will be more teams so maybe more $$. And as the "tradition" of split comps continues, maybe some day we can just put out the whole field and let the best food win. Just my two cents.

Personally, I think anything other than the wood/coal/lump is an advantage. Whether it's through sleep or timing or whatever.

Anybody can make good food, only a few are Pitmasters!

Yak

I would like to offer that the same logic thread that can get from "back to basics" to "Hole in the ground" also extends the other way from "It's about the product, not the process" to "Just buy it and turn it in."

I'll be in the peanlty box now.

OC PIG ASSASSINS said:

I will proudly say that I can kick ass with a FEC or charcoal and wood. The cooker is not the answer, it is the cook.

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was it you guys or was it not that i followed on the NE circuit and got has a helluva a year cooking on a spice?

how is it that a team can cook on an FE a Spice (with no stoker joker) or a side box char griller and still win consistantly?

do what you want... unless you burn it or send pork in raw there is no cooker that is giong to change anything other then make the people piling on wood and coal at 3amm and being jealous of someone sitting inside of their trailer/motorhome sleeping..

you wanna change and make it faster hi temp cook.. then you wont be jealous of someone who can set it and forget it.!

FatBoyz said:

oh yea that never happens now!!! right can you feel the sarcasum

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If it's allowed, I'm gonna use it not to crisp skins but to help soften and remove fat from the back of my chicken skins before they go on the cooker.

Gene01 said:

as an FYI, many of the board members do look at the forums on a reguar basis, they may not post often, they do want to stay in touch with what members think, I am not sure how this or any other rule vote may go, we will see...... some people think that we the board make up the agenda item rule requests, these are all from the membership, we just vote for or against what is presented to us... Linda Mulane collected this information from KCBS members at the rules meeting last month....

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Jeff_in_KC said:

Approximately 70 out of 11,000+ members. Most not even cooks. That's crappier numbers than the voter turn-out.

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I was at the 'Rules Meeting' at the banquet... If I recall the discussion on propane took less than 30 seconds... Probably closer to 15... Yes they took a 'vote'... It was voted down by the membership that was attending.

I feel that I can honestly say that if they passed this based on the 'information gathering' they did there, I won't be renewing my membership... Yet another showing of how little representation we actually get...